Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

@DataMum88 In answer to your question, EHCP pupils are allocated first, outside of the oversubscription criteria - separate process. Then LAC / previously LAC. Pupil Premium children are currently only given priority in the admissions policies for a minority of schools, although thankfully this is now starting to change.

Anyone - you don’t have to be a parent or live locally - can raise a case with the Office of the Schools Adjudicator if they think a school’s admissions policy is not in line with the School Admissions Code (available online) and you can look at previous decisions which are published.

Or where work is limited by disability, appropriate employment opportunities, having to look after children... There's plenty of reasons a household (particularly a single-parent household) might be struggling with low income that aren't just "can't be bothered".

The most shocking thing about this thread is actually that there are schools in this country where "less than 20% of children come out with a pass in Maths and English".
I mean, fuck me, that's appalling.

Our local grammar prioritises looked after/formerly La and then PP to a certain quota. Those kids are eligible if they hit the minimum pass mark. When I looked into at the figures very few La places went and the PP quota wasn’t used. Other places go to kids in the (big) catchment in rank order - so a child not La/no PP needs a higher score to get in.

OP I think you are really cross with yourself for not looking at this properly before Dd did the work to sit the exam. All you can do now is apply and hope for the best.

How is it not fair?

It's selective so anyone who passes the 11+ are then given priority by a specific order as per other secondary schools.

If they choose not to have the sibling rule as a higher priority then thats the schools choice.

I teach at a state school and after LAC and EHCP the next criteria is children of staff, then siblings, then distance.

A looked after child shoudl absolutely have priority. If a child with an EHCP has passed the 11+ then this is clearly a good school choice. After that they want to offer places to local children as thats nice for community.

You could move nearer the school?

I've never heard of PP getting priority, is that a grammar school thing? At my dc school it's LAC/previous LAC, EHCP, siblings, catchment, everyone else. There are usually around 5-10 children each year who get in on the first 2 categories.

My dc are on PP. We get discounts on school trips/clubs which is fair i think. I wouldn't want my dc to go to a grammar school, which was partly why we moved to somewhere there wasn't any. I think my dc1 would have passed as he got 7-9's in his gcse's and AAA* in his a levels. My others wouldn't have though.

In DDs’ day, admittedly quite a while ago, if you passed the 11 plus, you were offered a grammar school place.

Around here, some would be going to selective independent senior schools, so they would decline, and their place would pass to someone on the waiting list.

Why?

You can care more about your own children while also having the emotional intelligence to understand why other people’s children sometimes come first or need more of something or need something your child doesn’t get.

My child has an EHCP. It would be very shitty of parents whose children don’t need an EHCP to complain about the support my child gets at school just because “they care more about their own”.

It could be argued that the best for ones own children is for their parents to model compassion and care for others as well as show support for policies that seek to increase equality in society. I think teaching your children to get ahead at any cost to others is not really to their long term benefit.

Hopefully this has been cleared up for you,

My son got Pupil Premium even though I was a hard working family too. I worked part time, my son is disabled, he got free school meals which he wouldn’t eat so I always did him packed lunch. I claimed for them simply so the school got the pupil premium,

So yes “hard working families” sometimes have children who get PP too. Those children have to fight against harder odds to achieve,, My son needed a special school as he has learning disabilities, he would not have robbed your child of a selective grammar school place.

For a child who has managed to pass the 11+ despite challenges it’s only fair they are placed on an equal footing.

@Hazlenuts2016 threads like this seem to come up annually either during school applications time or allocation time. I knew as soon as I saw the title that this would be another thread where OP is bashing look after children.

Your attitude makes me sick. Children in care/pupil premium/open to social care have worse outcomes across the board in all areas of education. Why on earth wouldn’t you support prioritising these children - who are a minority by the way.

Agree. Almost the whole of N Ireland operates on the selective system and this attitude of "as long as my child gets into grammar and doesn't have to go to one of those awful secondary schools then we don't care about the state of said schools or the kids in them' is very prevalent. Certain political parties are very keen to keep the grammar system in place, because it keeps their kids away from as they see it - all those awful disadvantaged ones.

I am actually replused by the elitism and entitlement of the OP.

any child that isn't in care or pupil premium is on a back foot.

Just reread your words OP. Then read them again. Then think about what ‘care’ and ‘pupil premium’ means. Then have a little rethink.

To be fair, it’s a grammar area, so the top 25-ish% have been taken out. So the not passing 20% is from what’s left. It would be interesting to see the progress 8 of those “sink” schools.

It really isn't the hand full of looked after children who also bet their odds and passed the 11 plus that are the problem. The OP just needs to move closer to the school. That's what parents who want to get into successful grammar schools do. She says VAT is the reason the she isn't looking at independent schools, so if she could afford private pre-vat she can afford to move into the catchment area.

So you're fine with selective schools but not when they don't select your child?

I used to be responsible for LAC in my school. The priority status they were offered was established when it was at last acknowledged how disgracefully poor the educational outcomes were for LAC, a combination of family circumstances which probably placed them at a disadvantage in the first place, then added to that trauma the appalling record of care placement for LAC, with many children being moved , usually without notice, from foster home to foster home, or childrens home, often in different areas often at short notice. A child could go to school in the morning then be met by a social worker at home time and taken to a new carer, with a probable change of school as well . Can you imagine the level of insecurity this instills in a child? This happened frequently for many children, you don’t need much imagination to realise how damaging this was to a child’s continuity of education, to their sense of security, their ability to build friendships and relationships. While not sorting out the problem of multiple foster placements the legislation gave LAC some additional educational support, school priority placements being one of them, with virtual schools, teachers having responsibility for LAC and additional funding being some of the others that at least meant that LAC childrens education is tracked, records kept, and responsibility for their education held by named people.

Anything that provides continuity, oversight and legal responsibility helps to keep these very vulnerable children safe and gives them the chance to build strong relationships, acquire personal and educational skills and reach their potential.

I know people (now early 20s) who passed the 11+, didn't get offered any grammar places and successfully appealed.

It's just about giving children in care the best start re education.

The LA are also not allowed to place them in schools that are failing. So if their local secondary is in 'special measures', then they will have to travel to the nearest school that is 'good'.

I do understand OP is just concerned for her own child though.

Generally it does. The children in question won't have had the chance for extra tuition, and it's probable that their parents haven't been able to buy so much by way of things like educational toys, books, computer programmes etc. When my dyslexic child was in education, I paid for specialist tuition which he found really helpful - did you do anything similar? You wouldn't have been able to if you qualified for pupil premium.

Also @LookingforMaryPoppins- any child who has an older sibling of the opposite sex is on the back foot, or has a sibling who’s not as academically gifted.

I have two dcs in a grammar area, but a boy and girl so as most grammars are single sex, this didn’t make any difference.

Both of mine are at the super selective grammars. This means as long as you are in the catchment, distance from the school is irrelevant. There has been complaints in the town their schools are in that it’s unfair that children from our town have got places when local children who could walk to the schools didn’t get in, because kids like mine got higher pass marks. At least your school just goes off distance regardless of what mark your dd passed with. (I do accept it must be galling to have a child pass the 11+, live across the road from a good grammar and still not get a place because it’s based on score.)

DC1 failed the 11+, went to a comprehensive. Came out of there with 4 x Astar at A-Level and then got a 1st at Imperial College London. Now working full time as a scientist.

There is hope.

Sadly I think there are real people who think this way.