Angry at house seller?

[perfectpotato]

Had our offer accepted, in the middle of the legal process and we’ve had got the fixtures and fittings form from the vendors.

They are taking with them all the column radiators (will be replacing with basic ones), all light fixtures - they had these beautiful sconce marble light fixtures that they will be taking and they are have a fixed mirror in the bathroom, has Bluetooth and different lighting and they are taking that too.

My partner doesn’t seem bothered but I’m really upset, Aibu?

I cannot see the point in taking anything. I never have. They must be pretty sure their old stuff will go in their new home.

I also think they have to make good after removing things like light fittings, and anything on the walls. How they shut off the central heating and water if they take the radiators will be interesting.

Honestly - why do you want them? Let them go and buy whatever is to your taste or offer them some money for them. Personally I would let them go and chose my own every time.

We are unlikely to move for years to come however if we did there are fittings we would take with us, some are vintage and hard to replace, I wouldn't leave them for fear of the next person binning them without realising what they are.

It is weird to take radiators.

The radiators is weird but the other stuff I can understand.

You can withdraw or adjust your offer if you want to.

Wall lights and mirror are a bit stingy to take, but ok fine. However to take the radiators are they kidding? I’ve never heard of that. I’d ask how much to leave them, it’s going to cost them to remove them assuming they are not doing it themselves, plus if they’re the nice upright column radiators the fittings for a standard will be weird as different widths.

if they do take them I would ask to see evidence that a qualified person will remove and replace them and not a bodge job.

I would classify radiators as a fixture or fitting and not really something to take. Personally I would look for a reduction in the house sale amount as I imagine you expected these to stay.

Thinking about this and depends how far you want to take this, but you put an offer in expecting these items. Something as high value and obvious as vertical radiators should have been communicated when you were looking round. I would get a rough quote together (like for like radiators and a rough sum to have them installed), and ask for this amount to be deducted from your original offer.

If a mirror is wired in this is very bad form to remove, again get a price to replace and install and ask for a reduction.

Were they mentioned in the listing?

I've bought a house where they took all the lightbulbs and toilet roll holders 😳

You've no idea what any of those items might mean them.

If they meant that much to the seller then they should have mentioned that at the time of viewing, not wait until the latest they can get away with. We don't even know whether the estate agents were told.

Or remove them since these are items which are reasonably expected to stay in a house.

The actual vendor has posted upthread. They are taking the radiators because they are specialised and were gifted to the vendor, so sentimental value. OP indicated to the vendor that they would be renovating and rather than see them on a skip, he/she is taking them and replacing them with standard ones. Same with the mirror.

I really don’t understand some of the frothing here, not to mention some of the really bad advice given to OP, who, if the vendors’ post is anything to go by, hasn’t been entirely honest here. The vendor is entitled to remove any fittings they want, as long as they state what they’re taking on the TA10 form and don’t remove anything considered to be a fixture or items they’ve stated will be left, and as long as they make good after they have done so. So he’s entitled to remove the light fittings as long as he replaces them with basic fittings and light bulbs. Similarly with the mirror, if it’s powered he must make the electrical connection safe on removal.

Where non standard radiators are concerned I’ve come across this during the buying process and according to my solicitor the vendor was perfectly entitled to remove them as they are considered a fitting and not a fixture. And again, as long as he replaces them with standard radiators, makes good any damage incurred in the process, and obtains the necessary certification, he’s not doing anything wrong.

It’s important to remember that caveat emptor applies. In other words, don’t assume that fittings you see during viewing will be sold with the house. It’s the buyers’ responsibility to ensure that they know as much as possible about the property before the sale completes and the TA6 and TA10 forms are an important part of that, as they disclose everything the seller knows about the property and what fittings will be present when you take possession. At that point you can choose to negotiate, reconsider your offer, or pull out of the sale.

I was imagining from the title nothing had been mentioned before moving and you'd walked in to empty spaces, bare wires and ratator taps ending in nothing- in which case it would be reasonable to be angry

Very easy @perfectpotato you have three choices:

1. reduce your offer by the value of what they are removing
2. withdraw your offer
3. put up with it.

Which one is realistic depends on how much you want the house, how much they want to sell, and what sort of market it is.

Exactly this. The vendor has disclosed honestly on the TA10 form, and regardless of anything discussed/agreed privately at the time of the viewing, this is all that will be taken into account legally. Now that she knows what the vendor intends to take, she can negotiate, accept it, or walk away. If the vendor is replacing what he’s taking with standard fittings and making good, as legally required, I don’t see that she has a case for a reduced offer to be honest.

The sconce marble light fixtures may have cost a bit and they could be sentimental.

I have light fittings that I sourced from Italy after searching for 2 years, no chance will I be leaving them behind.

Offer to pay if you like them but they're NBU.

Radiators may have cost a lot too but weird to take them as more bother for the sellers to make right.
But then again, cost of making right might be worth it to them depending on reasons for wanting to keep them.

They don’t have a duty to disclose to the EA. The TA10 form is not ‘the latest they can get away with’ it’s part of the sale process, and the point at which the vendor is legally required to disclose what fittings they are taking/leaving. He’s done that. OP has assumed that light fittings, non standard and clearly high end radiators and powered mirror were being left, and the responsibility for that is on her - if these items meant so much to her as part of the property, she should have clarified whether or not they were included in the sale.

Now she knows what is being taken there’s an opportunity to negotiate, accept it or walk away. The vendor has posted upthread to say that OP indicated they intended to renovate and that rather than see these radiators on a skip he intended to remove them and replace them with standard ones, and that he has had several communications with OP over the phone, so I don’t think we’re getting the full story here.

Light fittings I get, bathroom mirror maybe, rads, no. How do they even know if they are the right size for their new home??

I don’t think that’s the point. The vendor themselves posted upthread to say that the radiators were gifted to them, so clearly sentimental value. Also disclosed that OP indicated that she intended to renovate, so the vendor was removing and replacing them rather than see them on a skip.

I have some antique light fittings which I would want to take with me and would make that clear at sale but not leave bare wires. Some people even take the light bulbs.

As a general rule, people don't go around while viewing a house asking "and are the radiators staying? And the boiler? What about the rather nice expensive shower? Kitchen cupboards, the boarding and insulation in the loft, the built-in oven set in the wall, the fitted wooden flooring, the fireplace, the burglar alarm, the mature fruit tree in the garden?" They probably would ask about light fittings, curtain poles, curtains, non-integrated white goods etc.

People are very quick to believe a random unverified post... there are people that deliberately go around pretending to be the other side just to stir drama.

Regardless of if it is or isn't though, OP is allowed to ask advice online and the advice is pretty clear than the seller is a bit of a CF.

Seller CAN remove them but should FULLY expect OP to reduce the price shes paying... you can not advertise a luxury product then swap it for a cheap one and still expect the full 'luxury' price. If shes gutting it so the OP can treat it as a doer-up then she gets doer-up money.

Renovating doesn't mean all ends up in a skip though. I eas ooking at doer upper planning complete reno and lots of these features would stay.

Yes, most modern reno's are about adding these character features back in or unearthing/restoring them not ripping them out.

How rude! Calling people names on something that has nothing to do with you!
Of course people offer for things they'd like left behind and it's the seller's perogative to throw things in, not a given.

@no18currentowner stated everything on the list that's why @perfectpotato knows about it, she didn't find out on exchange day, it's been clearly communicated.

If she wants to pull out then she should.

We offered for a pair of lights as they suited the property but could see how the seller might have wanteded to take them. Luckily they let us have them, but we certainly didn't expect it.

Talk about entitlement!

TBF their not suppose to do that.

They can take the bog roll but legally they are suppose to leave working lights (that means WITH a bulb) as its a safety issue, even if its just a bare pendant light.

Uninhabitable houses obviously don't have the same strict rule but if the buyer is moving in the lighting should be working as it was per viewing.