Angry at house seller?

[perfectpotato]

Had our offer accepted, in the middle of the legal process and we’ve had got the fixtures and fittings form from the vendors.

They are taking with them all the column radiators (will be replacing with basic ones), all light fixtures - they had these beautiful sconce marble light fixtures that they will be taking and they are have a fixed mirror in the bathroom, has Bluetooth and different lighting and they are taking that too.

My partner doesn’t seem bothered but I’m really upset, Aibu?

I think something as unusual as the intention to swop out what I assume are attractive, feature radiators with much cheaper standard radiators should be flagged at the viewing stage.

the seller and estate agent aren’t naive enough to think this would cause an issue - they just hoped the buyer would be so far into them process they wouldn’t object.

It’s always best to be honest,- that would have been the fair thing to do. I wouldn’t want to do business like this so I would walk away.

Very late in the process for something any reasonable viewer would have expected to be included in the sale.

I think that was deliberate.

I have never heard of anyone ever taking radiators with them. Light fixtures yes, mirrors yes. But not radiators!

There's loads of stuff you don't know after the offer until the sale goes through though. That's why we have surveys after the offer is accepted. No money changes hands until after all of that is sorted out.
Agreed, OP could seek to renegotiate the price, or try to buy the radiators, or pull out. Lots of people do that after various things come up on the checks and survey.

I don't disagree that this would be unexpected, and perhaps disappointing and frustrating if OP particularly liked the radiators/mirror/whatever, but it's not dishonest.

I bet they wouldn’t have argued about replacement radiators!

The inventory comes when it comes. it would be better to require it before offer maybe, but that’s not how it’s done. Best not to get attached to anything or to ask the seller before making an offer.

Funnily enough there’s another recent thread where the OP mentions seller taking the radiators.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/5426939-can-seller-change-things-in-the-property-between-offer-and-completion

I'm another that was surprised at the agreement in the first few posts. Glad some more sensible people have arrived! As a pp said, rule of thumb is that anything that wouldn't fall down if the house were turned upside down and shaken, stays. Light sconces, radiator and bathroom mirror all fall in that category. If not they should have been specified at point of advertisement.

The posters saying 'well they paid for them' are being ridiculous and illogical. Presumably if they redecorated they might have paid for new flooring, carpet, boiler and bathroom suite as well, should they be allowed to take them?

Apart from anything else, did you have/are you having a survey done? Presumably the surveyor checked things like lighting, heating, etc with those fixtures in place, not completely different ones, that you'll have no idea work or not.

I wouldn't be happy with this. It would seriously make me rethink the purchase, but a pp made a good suggestion which is that they take the cost of the replacement fixture (and cost of fitting them which wouldn't be insignificant) off the purchase price so you can get similar reinstalled yourself. I'd want it to be a decent amount though.

i would be questioning if they can take the fixtures. I would be reducing nt offer as you will have to replace these things

Two things I want to know

How do they remove a mirror that has been presumably glued on to a wall

And will they be paying for another survey to get the new energy rating after they have removed the column radiators and replaced then with smaller rads
Radiators are taken account of in the energy survey

I was quite clear - showing a superior product to get a high offer and then changing it to a less good product is a standard bait and switch scam. That’s dishonest. That the buying process allows for some dishonesty in sales without it being illegal doesn’t stop it from being dishonest.

I should clarify that I meant it's totally normal for a seller to list what they are taking on the fixtures and fittings form, to want to take these things i.e. what they intend to take from the house. Nothing underhanded about it if it's on the form and that they intend to replace the rads, that's part of the negotiation part to me.

Anyhoo, looks like OP won't be getting any of the house now as the vendor has seen her complaints on here so its by the by.

They are not obliged to leave anything you can make an offer for them. However you can insist they make good any damage made by removing items ie radiators

its fine to be disappointed, the radiators is annoying and will be expensive snd a faff to replace (basic rads are v ugly by comparison).

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say that you are reducing your offer to reflect the cost and inconvenience of having to reinstate the better quality radiators.

how far you want to push it depends on how much you want the house (and how much they want to sell it)

I mean I get it especially if you made the offer because you loved these features. But yabu as they can take with them what they please as long as they are replaced. If it's such a big deal pull out of the sale.

Rads, defo a bit odd. When I move, I’m taking the two light fixtures and will therefore leave either a hanging cord/basic rose or a cheap shade. I looked for a similar fitting and couldn’t find one so it’s coming with me.

@no18currentowner

you’re absolutely batshit crazy. I don’t care how many houses you have bought/sold, taking radiators is utterly bizarre behaviour.

of course you’re entitled to behave badly - mostly the law doesn’t protect against arseholes, just dishonest ones - and you’ve escaped that by the skin of your teeth. It would however have been far more reasonable to have made it clear that you weren’t leaving the rads at the beginning of the discussion. 1) because it impacts on the process OP might want to pay and 2) because it would have highlighted to OP that she’s dealing with someone who operates outside of the norms.

quick q are you also swapping out the nice kitchen and new bathroom?!

#teambuyer

The survey and searches are not the same as the PIF at all - the structure is the structure, whatever the land registry has is what it is - neither are in the seller’s control. There are also costs associated with each which mean they are always done later in the process.

However it is entirely up to the seller what she says is included in the sale a) when advertising the property and b) when negotiating the purchase price. She had at least two opportunities to explain she’d be stripping the property down to the wires before the buyer committed any further time and expense, and she chose not to, which was cynical and dishonest.

I am really surprised at this behaviour and attitude by a seller in the current market. (eg “I took your calls when others sellers would not”). If I were the OP I’d be walking away and finding another property - there are plenty on the market at the moment and great bargains to be had.

It is shitty. People expect radiators and such to stay as they are. You offered with these kn mind. I would ask for reduction on price to be able to swap like for like.
No one sane would expect that radiators you see on viewing and are in the pictures are not included.
Light fixtures, ok, people do that.

Fascinating what people say is fine with house sale. Imagine dealership advertising car with xx nice features and when you start filling paperwork they will tell you that it actually doesn't come with x and y, but hey ho, live with it.
There would be uproar and investigation into the dealership practices.

But somehow it's fine on £xxxxx houses....

Removing and taking the radiators seems very unusual, as this will undoubtedly leave gaps/new fittings that will change the house. May need re plastering etc.

light fixings seems less strange though I can understand why you would feel a bit gutted about this.

Taking the light fittings- fine. We’ve put some very nice antique period light fittings into our house and I’d want to keep them.
Taking the radiators- absolutely mental. We’ve fitted column rads and wouldn’t dream of taking them with us when we moved. They might not be the right dimensions for the new house and the expense and hassle of getting a heating engineer in to bleed the whole system and swap them out would be ridiculous.

@no18currentowner so to confirm, you're selling an ex-rental property, the OP/buyer has said she's planning to gut it and that she would throw away the radiators?
In which case you're actually not being unreasonable and she's batshit.

Yes, I agree with this, I would pull out. You don’t know what other surprises will come up with this unreasonable seller. As others have said this is very unusual and if this was the seller’s intention they should have replaced these things before putting the property up for sale, part of the properties value is in the finish.
Having had a similar situation with a previous seller when they listed a price for leaving a built in fire, mantelpeice and surround, I would definitely pull out.

Quite normal isn’t it

to take fittings and fixtures esp if nice radiators lights etc

you are buying the house. Not the contents

Least they are replacing them

my sellers took all the light bulbs and shower rail and mirror and something else

was 4 things but 26yrs ago so don’t rem what else

so had to run to the coop and get light bulbs ffs

Would you say that about a boiler? Or kitchen in uk? It is absolutely normal to assume these type of things are included as they were shown in the advert unless specified in the advert.

Assuming you offered under the impression the high finish radiators were staying then drop your offer. And then offer to buy them off them. You pay the same.