Angry at house seller?

[perfectpotato]

Had our offer accepted, in the middle of the legal process and we’ve had got the fixtures and fittings form from the vendors.

They are taking with them all the column radiators (will be replacing with basic ones), all light fixtures - they had these beautiful sconce marble light fixtures that they will be taking and they are have a fixed mirror in the bathroom, has Bluetooth and different lighting and they are taking that too.

My partner doesn’t seem bothered but I’m really upset, Aibu?

Radiators are odd and I wouldn’t expect them to be taken. What a strange thing to do! Do you reckon they’re hoping you’ll come along and offer money for them to be left? Could be tactic for more money! I’d be asking solicitor or estate agents what could be done about that one.

Everything else I think is fair game. Light fittings don’t need to be left as long as they are replaced with a standard bulb light. We’re in the process of buying/selling and this is all on the fixtures and fittings form we had to fill out for our buyers. It told us that if we plan to take any light fittings we should replace with a simple bulb ceiling light. Our seller has some gorgeous light fittings and fitted chandelier type ones that I was secretly hoping she’d leave, but I wasn’t banking on it - she isn’t unfortunately so we’ll just get a normal light bulb. I do understand as light fittings are something you have spent a lot of money on and can easily install in the new property, so why wouldn’t you take? Bathroom mirror is the sellers to take surely. We’ve been told that anything that’s removed from walls that leaves a hole or mark we just need to “make good” as in fill in (not even paint over but we will as we have some paint left over). So I’d imagine this is the case for the sconces if they leave a hole.

However, if these are things that were indicated earlier in the process would be left, you should raise it. I overheard our estate agent telling viewers that we were leaving our fake plug in log burner and matching slate hearth piece it was stood on (completely portable and easy to just pick up and move around). I made sure after that the agents told every viewer we won’t be leaving them as they’re not fitted, could be picked up and moved and as we paid a lot of money for them we fully intend to use them in our new house! They said people normally leave fireplaces - it’s not a fireplace!

You could always drop your offer due to the radiators as that’s usually a given that they’re staying and they add character and value given the high spec finish, and you aren’t getting them. Don’t give up yet, there’s still room to negotiate.

Light fittings are fair to take imo radiators no that’s just bonkers and I’d have lots of requirements about them being replaced by a professional who does the proper flush and balancing on the replacements

I'm a little surprised that there are all these nice things the seller can't live without in a rental property - surely this kind of thing would be in her own home? Plus I can understand having quite nice things if you're going for an up market rental, but people tend to furnish rentals with things that aren't of personal (rather than monetary) value as you can never be sure they will be looked after the way you would want them to.

Unless the seller has "done up" the house to sell, in which case removing the improvements could be considered false advertising. I know I would tend to pay more for otherwise identical houses if one is scruffy & the other "move in ready" with all the bells & whistles I would want - which is exactly why sellers do it. What's next - removing wood panelling, ripping out brand new fitted wardrobes leaving massive odd shaped gaps in the carpets, stripping out the burglar alarm system, taking up the hard wood flooring & leaving concrete?

Boiler stays

but the lights and mirrors are normal to take

Radiators are imho on same level as boiler. Or kitchen units. I think most people expect radiators to stay unless stated otherwise in the ad. Reasonable assumption.

Lights and mirrors, yeah.

Those radiators and lighting fixtures are considerably more expensive and they own them, so can understand why they want to take them your are not entitled to them.

The whole point of that paperwork you fill in is to go through those finer details as to what will be left or not - it is not a given fixtures and fittings are to be left. You are expected to leave light fittings in place that can he used and I’m sure this would be the same with radiators.

Id negotiate buying them if you love them that much to be angry

Oh, in that case I don't think there can be an issues, as should have been aware when placing an offer what was included.

As long as there is a working central heating system (so yes done properly otherwise it could be problematic) there isn’t really much the OP can do.
If you walked into a house you bought without radiators yes they would have to replace them but in this instance they are replacing them and I assume that paintwork etc was probably done to the basic standard radiators anyway

Again, it's an offer.

An accepted offer is binding on neither seller nor buyer. If after making an offer the buyer finds out something that materially changes the value of the property to her, she has every legal and moral right to change her offer.

The seller then needs to decide whether they are prepared to sell at that price, or remarket to find a buyer who will pay more.

It doesn't matter whether the buyer "should" have assumed the radiators would be removed or not. All that matters is that now she knows they are not, how much is she prepared to pay for what the seller is actually selling and whether the seller is prepared to accept that.

The documentation is produced after the offer is accepted so the buyer could not be aware at that point.

IMO it's no different to the survey finding hidden problems. New information has come to light and that may change what the buyer is prepared to pay.

Until exchange, the buyer can walk away if the deal no longer works for them.

Guess If nice /posh /thermastat once I can understand why they took them

You could ask them if they would be willing to leave them and negotiate a price for doing so. If they are not willing to do so, you can ask them where they bought the items.

This is madness. Why would you offer to pay more for something you thought was included?

You start by reducing your offer because you are not getting what you thought you were.

Seller is of course free to counter offer if they think they can sell at that original price without the rads.

Hopefully seller and buyer can come to a new agreement. Which if the seller refuses to drop the price or include the rads and the buyer still really wants the house may indeed result in the buyer agreeing to pay more rather than walk away.

But it's madness for the buyer to start by offering extra for something she thought was included when she agreed a price.

Taking light fittings is pretty normal, a wired in mirror a bit less so but ok I guess. Taking radiators is really unusual and I can understand why you wouldn't be happy with that. Radiators can really impact the look of a property and changing them is no small job, I'd be amazed if they can genuinely leave the property with no visible signs of the work, e.g., additional holes in the floor/carpets, damaged paintwork, exposed pipes. I suspect they're actually angling for you to offer to pay for the radiators and, in your position, I think I'd be having strong words with the estate agent and your solicitor about this and suggesting that they either leave them or you'll need to reconsider your offer.

Totally agree, the mirror is a bit odd, but at the end of the day it's a light fitting - but its worth noting (and I say this as a qualified spark) that the electrical connection would need to be made safe to comply with the requirements of a bathroom unless the mirror is being replaced with a different light fitting - choc blocs wrapped in tape is rough enough for a wall light, but a definite no-no in a bathroom.

Radiators will require pipework alterations (as the iron column rads are deeper than modern steel types - so it's going to require finesse and some making good. If someone told me they were taking the rads, I'd be walking away.

Ive seen that it was common to take carpets in the past too but it is bloody weird. Unless you are moving into an identical floor plan house they wont fit.

Like even where I grew up where semi detached neighboring houses where near identical they still wouldn't fit as the layout was mirrored so 'reversed'.

Many years ago my friends parents did a council house swap, everything like carpets, curtains, blinds, light fittings etc... where suppose to be left but they showed up to a completely gutted house and because they had been told that stuff must be left they had nothing to replace them and where really low income so for ages had no curtains and just bare bulbs etc...

Anyhoo, looks like OP won't be getting any of the house now as the vendor has seen her complaints on here so its by the by.

?

You seem to be assuming that the vendor has another buyer standing ready to offer the same price.

Some of the fixtures and fittings in my house, including lights and switches from places like Jim Lawrence have cost me a fortune. If I ever sell I would take them all with me and replace with basic.

Sooooo @perfectpotato What are you going to do?

I am in America and it’s obviously very different here. Anything attached to the home (even things like curtain rods) come with the home unless specifically stated in the listing before you make an offer. So, this would be WILD to me

That’s bonkers, make sure you stipulate that any screw holes, wall damage etc is made good in this process.

I'd be irritated. It's just more hassle to purchase and fit replacements. Another headache you don't need when moving house. I wonder if they are developers and take the nice stuff around different properties to 'dress' them? Weird

I'd be irritated too if this happened @perfectpotato
When we sold a few years ago we were planning to take light fittings and the buyer wanted them so we just left them, we were happy to do that so we could avoid disagreements. If they're taking out radiators and mirrors there will be a lot of making good for them to do on the walls, do make sure that your solicitor points this out to them.
Obviously they're perfectly within their rights, but I can't imagine why they'd want to take radiators, presumably they'll have to take out and replace the radiators in their new place? A lot of work.

Possibly outing self here, but when we moved house the vendor took several of the radiators and light fittings - and didn’t replace them. We couldn’t have hot water until we had frantically sourced new rads and had them fitted, as the boiler couldn’t be turned on until they were replaced. He also took plumbing fittings and left a houseful of crap! We are planning to sue.