Business Class should be the minimum for an overnight work flight?

[spoonfedzebra]

I have an upcoming work trip to New York. We are there for 2 days for an internal company course, which finishes in the afternoon. After that, we have been booked on to flights back to the UK. This means it will be a red eye flight and then have been told we would be expected in the office that next day.

We are flying in premium economy. AIBU to think an overnight work flight where we are expected to be in work the next day, should be at least business class?

Completely unacceptable. Who booked this?

YANBU - tell them you will be needing to WFH the next day and have time off in lieu to rest that morning.

Yeah, we want names!

It's annoyingly common but I agree. It should be business class.

So you leave on say - weds night, arriving in UK Thursday morning and are expecting to come into work Thursday? My work wouldn't expect that - we would just go home, and take the day off in lieu or work from home after a nap! although if the flight is under 9 hrs most staff would be in economy!

Yanbu. If you are expected to work the next day, it is reasonable to want a decent sleep.

Legally they can't expect that as travel time counts as working time and you are supposed to have 11 hours rest between shifts.

Well it is nicer if.possible but I had a job 25 years ago where I flew to NY every 6-8 weeks and we always had to fly economy. I'm not sure they had premium economy in those days ,. It was pretty awful though so I have sympathy.

The routine was always the same. We had to leave the office ( in Lomdon Victoria) at 4pm with a taxi to get the red eye from Heathrow at about 9pm Landed in the evening, night in hotel, work the next day. Then a few days later leave the NY office at 4pm again after a full day of work. Get taxi to JfK for the red eye, land at Heathrow in the morning and get a taxi directly to work to do a full day in the office, though we could usually go home a bit early at 4pm.

Rinse and repeat for 12 months

Business class was only for overnight flights over 12 hours long. I loathed it though and could only do it as was young and single etc

I got sent to Florida last year with work, red eye there and back. I was booked economy both ways, and it was grim. I wouldn't do it again now unless they booked me business.

I once flew to New Zealand and back in 5 days (including the flights) for work, in economy. It wasn't fun.

Depends on the work though. In my case, the trip wouldn't have happened otherwise (no budget for premium or business) but if you work for a big corporate type place with money then presumably they have an official policy?

Agree. It should be TOIL for the morning so you can nap, and then light wfh in the afternoon.

Yeah if I was expected in work after a red eye then yes business but I usually
fly premium with work and it’s ok but I’m not expected back in the office.

What would happen if you decline to come into the office after the flight home? Have you asked and explained the timings? I’m thinking it could just be an oversight.

That’s crap, either you should have the morning after off, or business class.

Unless perhaps this course is entirely voluntary and more for your CV benefit than the company’s? In that case I can see it from their perspective.

In an ideal world, yes.

However, business class is hugely expensive so I can understand why it can’t be justified. I would expect the following day off as TIL to recover.

Do you have any leverage that you can bargain with? Ie it’s either a) business class and I’ll be at work b) premium but TIL or c) won’t be attending

It depends on your workplace and their policies and budgets.

Whoever is booking the flights was probably told to get the cheapest option but they also need to think about value for money and having you able to work.

I fly business sometimes but mainly if with DH as he loves it, or if I have a lot of luggage on a European flight it’s often better value to fly business and get the extra luggage allowance.

I cannot sleep on a plane whether in business or economy (but can function on very little sleep for a few days) so for me if I’m paying business is often not worth the price difference.

A red eye flight in premium economy would be fine if the next day was a day off. Being expected to work after sitting upright overnight isn't on. Premium economy is basically a few extra inches of leg room and a meal on a proper plate, there's no way I could do more than nap uncomfortably. I'd be crap at work the next day on the back of that. Any chance you can get the day off following the flight?

What’s the company’s policy? Business class (not all airlines have it btw) is a multiple the price of PE, and many companies have a cut-off eg flight had to be longer than 8 or 9 hours to get business, 6-9 hours is PE, under 6 hours is economy.

I’d take the PE flight, go into work, check emails and do the necessary to make my life less difficult, then go home early. If anyone challenges me I’d say I hadn’t slept in the past 48 hours.

I do London-NY multiple times a year. These days NY to London is rarely over 6.5 hours, London to NY is 7-7.5 hours. It’s fine in PE. I really wouldn’t spend $3,500 on that short a flight. It’s not worth it as you really only get around 3 hours of sleep by the time they do all the announcements and service etc.

Our staff do go economy, but you also get the next day off in lieu, you're not expected to work.

PMSL, it was nice when that was the company policy - now it's expected economy all the way - to New Zealand. . .

Refer them to the Working Time Directive.

I can recall making an 11 hour flight back from Nepal and was sitting next to a young woman who had boarded at Khatmandu and travelling from Shanghai. She had been to a trade fair for her company. The flight was delayed by several hours and we would not be getting into Manchester until midnight. She then had a 3 hour drive home and told me she was "expected" in work next day. I told her that no way on this earth would I be going into work next day after a flight of that length. I told her to ask one of her parents to phone and say she was too jet lagged to go in. She replied that she was new at the company and did not like to take "liberties." I told her to be assertive and start as you mean to go on.

When I was an academic and flew international we took the day off before for preparations and packing and the day after to recover. No one would have made a transatlantic flight and gone into work next day. Most likely (for an attractive destination) we would have taken a few days annual leave and added it on to the trip to take advantage of the fact that travel both ways was paid for.

I voted YABU but my employer gives us a travel budget so if we had one trip Business so as to work the next day (e.g. on the way out to go to the Far East) we wouldn't have the funding for that nice-to-have course later in the year.
However everyone calling the evening London to NY flight a red eye is being VVVVU. Red eye is an overnight flight where you arrive in the morning, going East.

I’m torn on this. If it’s a private company then absolutely, if it’s a NGO or public sector or anything that relies on govt funding (ie. Taxpayers) or donations, then absolutely not and instead you WFH the next day.

DH works for one of the big four and they changed their policy a while back so that you only get Business Class if you’re expected to head straight to work from the airport. In your shoes I would act dumb and ask when/how you can take your TOIL for the travel time. If they push back ask for a copy of the policy “for clarity”.