Business Class should be the minimum for an overnight work flight?

[spoonfedzebra]

I have an upcoming work trip to New York. We are there for 2 days for an internal company course, which finishes in the afternoon. After that, we have been booked on to flights back to the UK. This means it will be a red eye flight and then have been told we would be expected in the office that next day.

We are flying in premium economy. AIBU to think an overnight work flight where we are expected to be in work the next day, should be at least business class?

I remember fondly the days when all work transatlantic flights were automatically business class. Had a couple of really nice trips with Virgin and BA with maximum time spent in their lounges at Heathrow beforehand!

Nowadays it’s the “flights scheduled to be longer than 7 hours” rule but to be honest since Covid only very senior people travel to visit other sites and do the motivational town halls. Rarely some colleagues have gone to the USA, it was economy but they were told by their line management to “WFH” the next day. With a wink and a nod that “WFH” was the reason for their absence from the office if the VP or HR asked, but no one seriously expected them to do anything except check emails a couple of times. It was effectively a day in lieu.

Names? I want their heads!

Whatever 'class' they've booked would be immaterial to me, as jet lag leaves me completely stupid for days. It would be dangerous - for me personally - even to attempt to drive after an eastern seaboard red-eye, one of the worst flights in the world for lag I believe. I'd be completely incapable of functioning in the workplace. I feel vile for at least three days, and that's irrespective of whether I've been in the states for two days or two weeks.

Different people respond differently. DH barely notices it but it makes me feel physically ill.

The last big company I worked for warned us not to drive long distances the day after an overnight trans-Atlantic flight because if we were in a fatal accident they could be liable under Corporate Manslaughter law. It was back around 2009-2010 and I’ve no idea if there have been any prosecutions. It was a big insurance company so I would guess they had assessed the risk pretty carefully.

Don’t be silly. A 6pm flight from JFK to MAN, for example, lands at 5am UK time. Disembarkation and passport control takes you to close to 6. Even if she lives very close to the airport she’s not going to be in bed til 7am.

The next day should be lieu time, with a couple of hours catching up with emails if necessary. Working Time Directive.

Travel time is work time, and as someone else pointed out, you’re meant to have 11 hours between that and your next shift.

If people stopped agreeing to work themselves into the ground in this way then we would all be better off.

At my work, any flight over 6 hours qualifies for business class…

You should definitely have TOIL the next day. There is no way I’d be fit for a day at work after an overnight flight.
I doubt a business class flight would ever be approved.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Have you heard of a time difference? My 8pm flight US time from New York landed at 8am UK time at Heathrow. So not only does it not land at 3am but you’ve lost several hours en route.

Agree with this. PE is fine.

All those eastern seaboard red-eye flights land at the worst possible time for jet lag. They leave the US late afternoon and land early morning (around 5-9 am) UK time. And there's little variance as I know because I've tried to find it. A flight landing at 6 pm onward would at least enable a night's sleep immediately to get the body back in synch more quickly.

The point about insurance and potential corporate manslaughter is an interesting one. I hope your employer have considered their position on risk assessment carefully, OP.

Nope.
If it’s a night flight in anything less than Business, then I’m taking the landing day to recover. If you put me in Business then I will go home, shower & come in if requested or required.
Option 3, they can foot another night of hotel & you can take the day flight back.

YABU expecting Business as even some very senior managers where I work have been banned from business class and flights are over 12 hours to Asia. My manager did a 14 hour flight and landed at 11am and had a meeting at 2pm to attend. No space even in premium economy.

what is YANBU is being expected to land and go straight to work. Are you paid hourly and can claim overtime? If salaried then go down the H&S route about employers having a duty of care to ensure rest breaks.

Read your travel policy as travel should be working time unless it’s your regular commute or less.

work out how long you would have been awake and if they force you into office and you had a car accident due to tiredness then could they be liable and the bad press. (Obviously worse for you)

I think it's more unreasonable not to get day off in lieue/at the very least wfh the day you've returned than business class. You won't sleep properly in premium economy, so you won't be in any shape to go straight into the office and perform normally. If they want to save the £s on the flights, fair enough, but they then need to give you a break or expect you'll be wfh. Having done the business overnight flight from NY to London, it's more the timing and time difference, you board and even if you sleep straight after dinner then you maximum get 4 hrs sleep, before it's 6 or 7 am in London and off you get - that's absolute best case scenario. For me, it's not so much is it business/is it PE and more the demand to be in the office that's unreasonable. Definitely check the travel policy, in case they've got it wrong, and if that is their policy I am not sure there's a lot you can do other than express that it's frustrating and you won't be on top form. Try and head home early - also if you drive to or from, it's a safety issue as you'll be on limited sleep so I'd flag that.

The policy at my place of work is that all flights over five hours are business class. So that would cover any flight to the U.S.

I travel regularly to Asia for work. I have to fly economy.
However, i work for a university and I imagine there would be outrage if I flew business.

I am reminded that a previous (very large corporate) employer did indeed have a policy that staff were not to drive themselves home in the UK after an overnight flight, and they’d organise a taxi to and from the airport. Usually there’d be more than one of us going so we’d be sharing it - the cost worked out cheaper than paying the mileage and parking for each of us to drive and they could claim they were looking out for our safety. Win-win all round.

The earliest a flight can land is 4:30am but many airports have a voluntary ban on flights landing between 4:30-6am.

unless they live close to the airport then they may not get home for a while.

work are being unreasonable. A 6 hour flight is close to a full working day in the office rather than shift workers etc.

you stay up til 3am and then get up and go to work

I think if you are expected to start work when you hit the ground business class is justifiable.

Otherwise if you are in economy you should be given time off for recovery.

I always tend to go economy and take an extra day before work to recover. It's cheaper that way. But I am paying for it myself.

With flight prices being what they are my husband’s company has stopped Biz Class Flights because the prices were too crazy. They all fly premium economy or economy (depending on price at the time) to keep costs down. He also often flies red eye. Sometimes he scores an upgrade at check-in for an extra £750 saving thousands. So that maybe worth a try.

WFH is still working

My flight from Egypt landed at 2.45am.

There are a few daylight eastbounds across the Atlantic getting the UK in the evening but to achieve that you need a breakfast time (US local) departure from the Eastern seaboard and that's not something that's ever become popular with the airlines.

As for driving I was crew for many years and post the Selby accident we were warned a few times that driving a long distance post a red eye could make us vulnerable to prosecution.

I would really much rather having the next morning to sleep than a trying to sleep on a BC flight.

it’s an outrage tbh- who do they think they are? You work away and they take your evenings and nights (yours! And your families!) and expect you to suck it up in the same way you would if you’d taken the 7pm train home from the office

im sure it’s this 80s matcho vibe that international business travel makes you feel so important and clever that you’ll suck it up not notice how fundamentally bad they are treating staff with this