Business Class should be the minimum for an overnight work flight?

[spoonfedzebra]

I have an upcoming work trip to New York. We are there for 2 days for an internal company course, which finishes in the afternoon. After that, we have been booked on to flights back to the UK. This means it will be a red eye flight and then have been told we would be expected in the office that next day.

We are flying in premium economy. AIBU to think an overnight work flight where we are expected to be in work the next day, should be at least business class?

Completely unacceptable, I worked for a bank which itself was cost cutting but No Way would they expect people to fly overnight in economy!

I get what you mean, but no employer can 'require' you to opt out of the Working Time Directive. They can ask you, and they can give you the option but it can't be mandatory. And even if you do opt out you can opt back in at any time. I've never signed an opt-out in 25 years of professional, director or c suite roles, but then I have always worked on a 'give and take' basis with clear boundaries

No employer I have worked for would expect an early start into the office after an overnight flight regardless of the class of travel - and I spent much of my career travelling for business. The norm was anything from the day off to a late start WFH, depending on class of travel and meeting schedule . Also Premium economy out / business back was the norm for short (sub 8 hour) overnight flights post covid. Though at one point we had a deal with BA of PE out First back, which was cheaper than PE / Club World presumably because there was more money for BA in selling the CW inventory to people who would pay for CW both ways :)

As far as I know the working time directive 'opt-out' is only about the 48 hour week, and does not impact the right to rest periods.

Yes correct but try telling that to a City bank or law firm… their employees regularly get far less than 11 hours’ rest. However, these firms would absolutely shell out for business flights not least as they can charge them to the client.

I have worked for the directors of three large companies who all did a lot of international travel. They all had to fly economy regardless of the time/length of the flight. Even the CEO. It was only after one was involved in a serious accident driving back from Heathrow to Devon after an overnight flight that they decided a chauffeur driven car was needed in those circumstances. I am surprised that for H&S reasons things haven't moved on since then. (I retired in 2012).

At the law firms I worked for, below partner level the policy was to fly Premium Economy for transatlantic travel. And yes, we worked the next day. I did it many times, including when pregnant. It wasn’t great but it was fine. I would cope with it less well now I’m older but a few years ago I was fine to do this.

I worked for a company that required any travel longer than 5 hours to be by Business Class after someone crashed their car driving home after a red eye. It’s basic health and safety.

I agree with you but if it makes you feel better as a teacher on work trips you often have to travel overnight on a coach full of rowdy teenagers. Then be on duty 24 hrs a day for the duration of the trip. Share a room with another adult and have zero downtime. You often have to catch someone's vomit in a bag at some point.

Or on a plane, you have to be responsible for 50 or so teenagers, make sure they don't lost their passport or piss off the other passengers. Even in your hotel at bedtime you have to stay up till gone midnight to make sure everyone goes to sleep and stays in their rooms. When you get back you always have to waif for that parent who is 45 mins late to collect their child and doesn't even say thank you. And then you are expected to be back in work and teach 5 lessons the next day.

Yep. I've just done three countries in 10 days including 2 journeys which took 20 hours (with layovers). Economy all the way!!

Plus I had to teach online while 8 hours ahead of the UK after a full days work. And my friends think I have a glamourous job!

I don't think business class should be mandatory - the price difference can be absolutely massive - but having an appropriate rest day(s) should be.

When we fly back from the US, our usual flight lands Sunday afternoon. Sunday/Monday are strict 'no contact' days, Tuesday is 'urgent bits/emails only', Wednesday is WFH and Thursday back in the office.

Our company does premium economy to nyc now. It's horrific.

I have refused our latest offsite I just wont do it.

No it’s a pretty short flight. Most companies won’t do PE unless over 8 hours. Depending on direction yours is between 6.5-8 really so it’s a generous policy.

Most companies would expect you to crack on with work too tbh. If you want to be the one person to push back, whether you’re right or not, nobody else in the industry does otherwise they wouldn’t do it. I’m not saying people shouldn’t push back - just be mindful there could be repercussions, perception you’re the difficult one etc.

I fly to San Fran, Vegas and Dallas for work a lot (11 hours direct or more if two flights). PE each time.

I am assuming you’re not on minimum wage, sometimes you just have to do these things. Once in a while for other benefits, just do it and don’t be the one to moan. That will be remembered sadly.

Can you not WFH the next day? Expecting you in the office is a bit much. Working from your home in your joggers is different.

😂 And addresses!

Actually, as you are travelling for work you shouldn’t be in the office as soon as you land the next day anyway. Under WTD regulations you need a minimum rest period of 11 hours between shifts - there is plenty of case law which identifies work related travel as part of the hours which count towards the WTD limit. You may have opted out of the 48 hours limit for the week but you can’t opt out of mandatory rest periods. It’s like the equivalent of travelling all day and then being asked to go to the office and work for 8 hours of the night!

But also, if I were to ask someone to do that then I would be flying them business class!

Actually, you cannot opt out of the mandatory rest breaks required in the WTD, you can only opt out of the 48 hour working limit. You cannot opt out of minimum rest periods between shifts including the 11 hour rule and rest days in 7/14 day periods. Unless you work in an excluded service such as emergency services etc but these are few and far between.

I travelled to USA a lot for work in various previous companies and always we got toil for the flights. Quite strict rules but also fair.

I think based on flight length, most companies wouldn’t offer this business class now.

TBH the cost is insane too vs what you get / time spent on the plane - can easily spend £5k+ per ticket.

Yeah, just no. I wouldn’t be going in. I flew back from New York and felt bloody dreadful after the flight. Flight landed at 6 am, passport control took ages, so did the bags. It was about 9 am before we got home exhausted.

Absolutely not. As an employee I was never expected to do this (following day was always a day off) and as an employer I’d never ask it.

All universities cost the same in the UK. None are more expensive than others.

It can be really dangerous driving after a long flight, especially an overnight one. It’s why almost every company I have ever worked for provided a car to / from the airport.

Though, I am reminded of being an indestructible 25 year old working for a certain national carrier when, for reasons lost in the mists of time I had flown to Sydney, spent somewhat under 36 hours there and then returned to London. I had a feeling perhaps I had a meeting with Qantas about new lounges. I’d left London Monday evening, arrived in Sydney Wednesday morning gone to office, left Thursday afternoon and arrived home Friday morning. No need to go into work so I’d jumped into my car and driven straight up to Leeds to see some friends for the weekend. I made it almost without incident, until I caught myself dozing off on the M1…I’d done around 200 miles by then and could remember almost nothing about the journey at all. Quite scary. And I’d flown in first class both ways, so was about as rested as it was possible to be given I’d spend 48 out of the preceding 90ish hours on planes…. I’m am hyper aware of driving after periods of little or poor quality sleep nowadays.

If they want international students then someone will be travelling!

It’s pretty standard for universities not to pay for tea, coffee or milk - I’ve worked in HE for 20 years and none of the universities have ever provided drinks. Or a Christmas party!

No chance I expect this

I flew back yesterday morning with an overnight flight, NGO so not permitted to book PE or business class. Didn't sleep on either plane. Arrived home at 10am from airport and logged the overnight as TOIL but I'll not take it until next week because I needed to work to follow up on the trip outcomes. Company policy states to take Toil ASAP but otherwise doesn't stipulate when. I'm shattered this morning!

I travel for work but we only get business for flights over 12 hours which I think is OK. However I work from home on the morning after a night flight back and generally have a 2 hour nap around lunchtime. We don’t get TOIL though unless we are travelling on a weekend though.