To think martial arts is out because of forward roll fear?

[TaylorWift]

DS 13.
I really want him to learn a martial art.
He is shy, sensitive, quiet, and his self esteem is ok but very easily knocked for a number of reasons too detailed to go in to here. He had amazing self esteem as a young child, but I've watched this get knocked since the age of 10 due to a series of different things that happened to him. Obviously im working hard all the time to rebuild it, but bottom line is his view of the world and the people in it has been turned upside down over recent years and his self confidence is now low.
Anyway, big bullying incident at school a few of months back. Led to the bully being permanently excluded.
DS isn't confident in a sporty way, unfortunately. He's always refused to join any sports clubs that involve higher levels of competitiveness, i.e. football.
I feel like I need to get him in to martial arts. Not only to teach him self defense but also to make him carry himself confidently and to give off an air about him that shows he's not an easy target.
I chatted to him and he's open to it.
So I've had a long phone conversation with a local martial arts trainer who was great and really helpful and he talked at length about the philosophy behind martial arts. I told him all about DS and he said martial arts would be great for his self confidence. I could hear his passion for it. But then, as soon as I said DS can't do a forward roll, or a head over heels as I used to call it as a kid, he straight up said DS won't be able to join his class until he can do one.
But DS literally cannot do a forward roll. And I don't mean he can't. Can't, and won't practice. He also cannot dive. In his swim lessons, he can't go up to the next stage because he can't dive.
He has tried to dive and tried to do forward rolls but he can't do them.
He says he cannot do anything where his head has to go forward and down under the rest of his body and then for his body to follow over his upside down head. I don't know if I'm explaining this properly 🤦‍♀️
So is that it? Is DS blocked out of learning a martial art because he can't do forward rolls?
I'd really love advice from anyone who foes martial art, or whose DC do, who might know about this?

You know what, everything you've described about cadets is right up DS's street! The summer activity camp, the rock climbing, the mountain biking, the air shows, the first aid, everything you describe is what he'd love to do. What type of cadets is this that your DS goes to? Air cadets, sea cadets, fire cadets, army cadets....aren't there all different ones that do different things? I got so put off of it by various mum friends telling me all they do for an hour is polish boots!
And do they have to go twice a week or once a week??
I still want him to learn a physical form of self defense, but the cadets could be an addition, not an alternative.
Thanks for telling me about this!
I really need to find ways to get his self esteem up.

Rather than picking a specific type of martial art, I would definitely go and watch a few classes and find the right club. It's not necessarily the sport that makes it, it's how inclusive and encouraging the instructor is, what level the overall group is, and how competitive is is.

I also hate doing forward rolls, struggled with them as a child and I had never attempted backward rolls at all. I learned to do all of them plus more, in my forties, in Brazilian jiu jitsu. They weren't a requirement - whether you actually need them depends on the type of jiu jitsu you choose to make your own - but the movements we did in class helped me get used to the sensation and we were taught safe ways to do them (how to slow them down, avoid rolling over your neck etc) There was no pressure that we had to do them (we had to learn how to fall safely if we did judo style takedowns, but not necessarily forward rolls and we could sit out of things we weren't comfortable with)

I've done various other martial arts and have found in all cases, some schools are better for beginners and hobbyists, others for those who want to compete/are natural athletes. Any good instructor will let him observe a class or do a trial class to see if it's a good fit or not.

My ds2 does kung fu. He started at secondary school due to bullying, and is now a coach.

Although they do forward rolls, these are not in the few sequences, so by the time they start to learn them, their confidence is already boosted in a positive environment.

You need to talk to and try out different clubs and disciplines to find the best fit for your ds.

I'm a kickboxing brown belt.

I've never done a forward roll in class. I couldn't do one at all. It's also not a contact sport. We kick and box pads held by our partners. There's no actual fighting or skin to skin contact. It's great fun and great for fitness.

@DancefloorAcrobatics
Just seen cadets require twice weekly sessions for a couple of hours each session.
DS can't commit to 2 long sessions a week plus a martial arts plus all the other stuff he does plus homework all on top of school.
If cadets was ince a week I'd explore it! But a twice weekly commitment is too much.

I do a martial art and have never had to learn a forward roll as part of any forms. We have been taught to do shoulder rolls and break falls but that’s usually for a bit of fun for the last 15 minutes of a class, it’s not a requirement of any forms or to move up the grades.

What about St John’s Ambulance cadets? I know someone whose son has had a wonderful time with them. https://www.sja.org.uk/get-involved/young-people/cadets/
I think they are weekly, You can find the local groups here: https://youthonboarding.sja.org.uk/roles/list

My 16 year old daughter is a black belt in kickboxing. It has completely shaped her life in nothing but positive ways.
it was a good long while before she did any full contact sparring, it was built up slowly over time and despite being short and petite, she has never been injured.

I really don’t think I’d have the happy, confident, independent young woman I have now if she hadn’t have found this sport.

My autistic, dyspraxic DS has been doing karate for 7 years since he was 7 and has gradually worked up to purple belt. No rolls required so far.

His "diving" was um... interesting... he'd get into the right position, try and muster the courage, then as he tried tipping in, his feel would panic and he'd enter feet first while still in a diver's squat with his arms last his ears
It was the most entertaining part of slogging through a decade of staged swimming levels. (Respect to him, he learned to swim many years younger than me )

He also loves parkrun. Regular but low pressure; do your own thing each time.

Cadets was fantastic for my DD. If they want to progress, then they need to commit to two sessions a week, but there were always a few kids that only came once a week or whatever. My DD went flying, shooting, parade, she did band and drill, and expedition stuff. I honestly think cadets is very much one of those things where you get out what you put in.

Your son sounds quite a gentle, reserved sort of child. Why are you so set on him doing martial arts?

I don’t feel that you should be encouraging your child to use martial arts against another child to “defend himself”. The best advice is to walk away and avoid the bully. There will be reasons that the child is bullying your son like their personal home life and physical fights are not the answer

Many of the 'traditional' martial arts based in budo (the way) focus on building character and respect, and will teach exactly this - walk away from trouble, but from a position of strength and integrity. There's not much use walking away from someone who comes after you. You said it yourself - 'defend himself', not attack first.

My late husband started Shotokan karate in his 50s and got his black belt at 64. (Had more than a year out, for heart treatment.) No forward rolls required.

Yup.

The mantra at DH's club was 'Stay away from asshats and places where asshats hang out.' [They didn't say 'asshats'.]

ETA And yes - you defended yourself if necessary.

My son does taekwondo (UKTC) and has never had to do a forward roll!

Reading your reply makes me wonder if your DS has to many activities?

I know both my DC started to focus on one over the other activities and eventually dropped most by y8 in secondary school.

DD did stick with Taekwondo and did exponentially well with it- she made it to 2nd Dan black belt by age 18. An fantastic achievement but also a huge commitment in terms of training. She did train 3x 90 minutes most weeks plus competitions
DS loves air cadets and again it needs a high level of commitment to achieve the badges. But to him it's more of a social club, so not to many badges for him! But he's working through the grades of the electric guitar which takes up a lot of time in practice...
This is obviously all on top of school work!
Maybe it's a good idea to re visit the time on activities spend. Check what he finds most fun as well as where there is scope for progression if that is what he wants.

Processing well within an activity rather than just scraping by is what gives DC confidence. They are good at something, they have fun with friends and that in return makes them feel good about themselves = confidence.

If you have to fall safely you need to be able to do a rolling break fall as well as other types of break fall.

I'm sure he could do a forward roll with some good teaching, there is a very specific way of doing it. I'm actually very surprised the teacher didn't say no problem we will teach him. Learning to fall safely, including rolling, was the first thing I learned, it's really more rolling over/along your arm rather than straight over your head.

As said some forms of martial arts may not need you to be able to fall safely.

I do Tang Soo (Korean) karate and have never had to do a forward roll.

I think tae kwondo would be a really good option for him. You learn set patterns of different techniques so you don’t have any real sense of violence at all.

You seem to have come across the wrong instructor. A good one would work with your son to slowly overcome his issue and have him learn at his own pace.

Try Archery if you have a local club.

Krav Maga. No forward rolls, excellent self defence

My daughter does taekwondo. Never seen her do a forward roll ever. Did realise the other day after her asking me to "attack her" so she could practice defence just how strong and quick she is after a couple of years doing it! I'm not sure I could actually win against her (not that I'd try but you bet what I mean!)

I did kick boxing. No forward rolls in sight either.

I started jiu-jitsu when I was 13 and I couldn't forward roll at all and was really scared to try. The sensei and my older cousin who already went there spent a session teaching me and pulling me over by my belt! I don't see why he couldn't be taught during the sessions?

I think forward rolls are scary. Have you thought about archery. There are lots of local clubs. It isn’t hard to get to a decent level and people have to be very safe and calm. Getting the gold can really boost you!