AIBU to send my little one to a "rich" school?

[kisaki333]

First, please don't flame me for this, this not a rich vs poor discussion. Just looking for some perspective as I am a first time parent and didn't go to school in the uk so this is all new to me. I want to choose the best option for my DD as she is starting reception next year.

All the primary schools in our area are ok, rated good by ofsted.
The school closest to us is a small one (only 1 class per year). My little one goes to nursery there and is happy. However I noticed most of the parents seem not that affluent let's say. Even in the official statistics over 40% of the children qualify for free meals which i think means on benefits. Not an issue in itself but for example there are no school trips as the parents can't afford them. Only minimal after school or extra curriculars, again as parents can't afford them.
School itself also seems to struggle financially, they can't afford a substitute teacher if someone calls in sick, for example.
Still, I like this school as the staff seem passionate(most of the teachers are young) and nurturing. My little one is a sensitive soul so probably would do better in a small setting.

On the other hand, there's a school in a more affluent part of town. It would mean we need to drive there and the traffic and parking are bad . But their PTA pays for many things, like a few years ago they got a pool installed. Loads of extracurriculars and facilities. They are a bigger school (2 classes each year) and feels a bit impersonal. Staff didn't strike me as passionate but then i only saw them a bit during a tour so not much interaction.

My little one would essentially be ok in both. But she is ahead academically so i worry in the "poor" school she won't be challenged enough as there's no resources for that. Yes, I can pay separately for football or ballet or whatever but the logistics of doing that outside of the school seems exhausting to me.

If you could get into either, which would you pick and why? I am slightly leaning towards the "rich" school so :
YABU - pick the small poor school as it's closer and they care.
YANBU - pick the large rich school as the academics and opportunities offered are more important

this not a rich vs poor discussion.

It always ends up being a rich and poor discussion though, you must know that posting in AIBU?

If it was me I would send my DC to the bigger school, two classes per year is not particularly big but it does sound like there are more clubs etc.

I would look into clubs out of school such as a local Rainbows/Beavers groups etc.

Do look into catchment areas to see if the further away school is even an option.

The bigger school does sound a bit better. I also think there is value in having a larger school - what seems great for a Reception class child will not necessarily suit a 7 year old and two classes is really not that big.

Having said that, I sent my child to the smaller poorer school in preference to a larger richer one, and it was fine. She did very well and got into highly selective schools at 11 and flew academically. My daughter's school did have extra-curriculars, though, and I think they are really important at that age.

Definitely check catchments.

And think very hard about what the commute will actually mean. If you are going to be in the car for two hours a day, that's a big chunk of time. Do you have other children or are you planning to have any? You need to factor them into the potential commute as well. And it will cost money and what if you get a job that means you can't do the school run? Plus your daughter's friends are unlikely to live close by and that's really important at the primary stage.

Are you in catchment for both?

caring nurturing staff are very important and would be a deciding factor for me. Are you sure they don’t do any school trips at all though as that would be rather strange.

Yes, I can pay separately for football or ballet or whatever but the logistics of doing that outside of the school seems exhausting to me.

Why exhausting? 😳

I think the "poor" school has the edge in that it has passionate staff, is closer and transition will be easier as she is familiar with the setting. That said, you don't really know the other school so it could be that the staff are fabulous. Do you know any parents with children there who you could ask?

Yes, that seems like a mad reason to discount the smaller school.

Are you in catchment for both, OP, and how long would the car commute be if you chose the more distant one?

Of course you should send your child to the rich school, if you can

We aiming high for our kids, aren't we

This is a tricky one. Generally I think closer is good, but I would find the better clubs and facilities appealing. How long is the journey to the bigger one (allowing enough time for traffic and parking)? Fine if it's 15 mins each way (30 mins round trip) but if it was 30 mins each way then I would definitely be thinking twice.

Schools get more per pupil funding for pupils on free school meals, so I wouldn't assume that a school with more 'poor' pupils is worse funding - all else being equal it should be better funded. However, there are obviously economies of scale with a larger school so this may explain the 'rich' school seeming better resourced. Richer parents can mean that PTA funds extracurriculars/extras but it won't add to the school's basic funding. I probably would go for the 'rich' school as you describe it, assuming outcomes /SATS are good.

I think two form entry just allows schools to do a bit more - none of the one form entry schools around here have much in the way of clubs or after school care, because if you only have 150 children in the whole school it isn’t economical to run them (the smaller school are church schools around here and attract affluent people). I also think only having 25-30 kids in your year is a bit limiting - potentially only 10-15 girls to make friends with.

So, I’d go with the bigger school as long as academics no worse.

But it might not actually be the better school, or even the better school for the OP's child. If the SATs results and Ofsted are similar, the poorer school must be doing an amazing job.

@kisaki333 what is the percentage of FSM at the richer school? And what's the average locally?

I definitely think the bigger one, if she is academically able.

Thanks to all that responded so far.
To answer some questions that came up:
Yes, we are in the catchment for both and can get into both based on previous years.

The small school is 5 mins by car or 20 mins walk/cycling (15 mins for me) .
The bigger one is 10-15mins drive and then probably a 10-15 min walk/cycle as there's nowhere to park around there.

Dont have and not planning on other children so I need to get this one right 🥰

Doing extracurriculars outside school would be exhausting for the little one, not for me. She'd finish school then either home for a little while and then off we go to some activity that's 20 mins drive or straight to another activity. Either way her "decompress time" is disrupted. If the activity is in the school, right after school, it's more seamless ( and of course a bit easier for me, but that isn't a deciding factor)

The finances may not be as clear cut as you think. If more pupils are on FSM, they will have pupil premium which means the school gets additional funding for them. Whilst that funding is designed to be spent on the pupils who benefit from it, how that is interpreted can vary. For example, it may be that, if there are several children, the money is pooled together and used to pay for an additional TA in a class. Or it may be that it actually pays for those children to go on school trips or participate in enrichment activities meaning that that school actually provides more than a school where parents are in the position where they don’t qualify for FSM but are not affluent enough to pay for school trips, ballet lessons etc themselves.

Do bear in mind, too, that after school activities provided by the school are rarely at such a high standard as external
clubs. For example, at my DC’s school, “dance” was offered and they did a different style of dance each term but it was very generic. It wasn’t comparable to the ballet, tap, modern etc lessons offered by outside providers. Similarly, the KS2 children could do a sports club most days after school but the coach was the same teacher every day & for every sport. The level
of coaching just couldn’t be as good as external providers. Many kids did a mix of school clubs and out of school clubs so you still have the logistical issue. Plus there are the simple facts that your child might not get a space in the school club or might not like the teacher running it and so on.
That said, I would always go for a two form entry school over a one form entry school just because there is more variety. There are 59 other children for your child to find a friend amongst rather than 29.

Don’t rule out extra curricular activities that aren’t run by the school. As she gets a bit older she may want to do tennis, ballet, drama etc.

How is the rich school 'aiming high'?

Doing extracurriculars outside school would be exhausting for the little one, not for me

While this may be the case now, it probably won’t be so much of an issue in a few of years. Both of mine were shattered after a day of pre school. Both of them have just spent the last 2 hours charging round soft play with their friends without issue.

Unless a school was dire, I’d personally always go for a school I can walk to. I think it’s so important for health and community. Going with that logic (alongside being very impressed with the senior management team and their approach to both behaviour and inclusivity and flexible wrap around care), in a similar situation to you we went for the school with a much higher % of FSMs. No regrets. Despite the SATs results being not quite so good, my kids love it and are thriving. This: The bigger one is 10-15mins drive and then probably a 10-15 min walk/cycle as there's nowhere to park around there would be my idea of hell every morning for the next 7 years.

Only you know what your priorities are though.

School based extracurricular don't really replace out of school extracurricular.

They are usually short sessions, happening for a few weeks, having waiting lists etc. Good for trying something new but not an in depth experience for a keen child. Its not something to base a decision on really.

Its an awkward question really because while it shouldn't make a difference, the demographic of families does effect a school ethos. A school can be fantastic for all sorts of reasons but its only really beneficial if those reasons match your needs.

How do you know the school can't afford a substitute teacher?
This all seems odd to me. I've worked in schools. FSM children get more funding and that makes up more than what a PTA does in my area. The extra-curricular activities were always run by school staff anyway and weren't chargeable. It may be different where you are looking but unless you are certain don't be assuming dance club at school would be anything like ballet at a dance school. They also all had trips, including residential trips and even trips abroad.

Sorry ignore missed your later post..

Which school is your catchment school?
You may not have a choice in schools..

If it is 'poor school, check if the 'rich' school is oversubscribed. If so, then you are not likely to get a place being out of catchment.

I disagree with the sentiment that a child who is academically bright will flourish anywhere. Not given the right environment will make that child struggle to actually succeed, given the challenges that state schools face today.
i would choose the second, bigger school. It’s not only about the academics, it’s about the entire school experience.

We try to avoid using supply teachers if we can, not for budget reasons but for consistency for the children. If we can cover from within with staff who know the children then we will.

The lack of resources and no substitute teachers has nothing to do with the demographic of the families. Schools are funded per pupil. Less pupils, less funding. Some things don't cost double just because you have double the students. For example, they won't have double the number of toilets or kitchen staff, more maybe but not double. Highly unlikely they have double the office staff. The extra money is then available to use elsewhere in the school.
You'll have to decide which is right for you and your child, small with less opportunities and you maybe do more out of school yourself, or bigger and impersonal so you maybe feel she is less supported. I'd say if that's how it felt when you visited it would be a no for me. Two class entry isn't that big really, there are bigger, so it shouldn't feel impersonal. The PTA shouldn't need to fund things, and you can't rely on that. Next year they might all leave then there's nothing!