Are the majority of men good guys?

[Musings32]

(nc incase outing)

There was a discussion in my place of work today which has really got me thinking. Some of the men in work were talking about how the vast majority of men are really good men, treat women well, step up properly as fathers and husbands and are completely dedicated to their families and kids etc and it's only a small minority of men who aren't or who justify abuse/ cheating/ not parenting presently enough or act in otherwise disrespectful ways towards their spouse/ family/ women.

I was actually really surprised at how many of the women in work agreed with them because I would have said the majority of men tend to let women and children down in lots of ways and can be really harmful or unreliable.

Personally I haven't had good experiences with a lot of men throughout my life and my marriage taught me that you can think you really know and trust someone and still not know what they are actually capable of- that someone can love you but still be profoundly selfish and justify anything to themselves. I also work in a field where I see the worst of people in general a lot of the time, and it's noticeable that male violence and abuse tends to be more prevalent. I then thought maybe my own experiences and line of work are skewing the picture so I thought I'd poll it to see what others think, maybe to either (hopefully) give myself a reality check or to know I'm not crazy!

So:
YABU I believe the majority of men are "good" men
YANBU I believe "good" men exist but are in the minority

I think the majority of people are good people - men and women. You have to remember that you usually only hear about the arseholes in the world, where does it get shared/reported on when people are amazing/normal/basically decent.

No . They’re only good when things are going their way. Then they turn .

It depends where your bar is, surely? Personally I prefer to avoid men because however 'nice' they are they still have a far greater drive towards aggressive and sexual behaviours than women do. I find it both distasteful and intimidating. It's just the way nature designed them.

I can find a man attractive, especially if he's being kind towards something vulnerable, but if I had a straight choice between stuck in a room with a pleasant seeming man who's bottle feeding a kitten, and a pleasant seeming woman doing the same, I'd chose the woman. There's always that 'be aware' feeling around men for me even if it's buried down to an almost subconscious level.

I guess for the purposes of this I'm setting the bar at someone who is a genuine 'family man', who respects women and is not harmful in his behaviour.

I understand that men are socially and biologically to some extent often raised to be more aggressive/ sexual than women are, but obviously not all men act on impulses they might have in harmful ways because they have personal boundaries and a respectful baseline? I guess what I'm trying to work out is what we think the ratio is.

Well I've been with dh 10 years and I can say he isn't Like other men he doesn't go out nights out lads crap holidays etc so yes sometimes men are great we've had our ups and downs but he's still my number one and wouldn't hurt me tbh I don't like women much

I think the majority will cheat if they think they can get away with it

No xx

I think that sadly lots of actually good men - considerate, thoughtful, generous, loyal, caring etc, can be that deep down, whilst also behaving like a bad man being selfish, demanding, controlling, spiteful, bullying etc. I’m not sure if that is cos they can’t manage their impulses or if they don’t want to, but either way it means they are actually not as good as they could be, as they think they are, or as they sell themselves as.

I think what men consider decent behavior and what they think a good father does, is a million miles off what most women think.

Most men I have worked with, think bringing in a salary and not getting caught with another woman, qualifies them as good dads.

My ex genuinely believes he is dad of the year. He's never done a school run or a parents evening - ever. Or helped with homework, or played a game of kick about. He think 6 hours a week does it. He has no idea how to feed or clothe or encourage a child.

I don't know what the answer is. I've tried to model decent parenting to my ds. Love, care, attention, loyalty, support. I hope it works

I have no idea if it's the majority of men, but even the fact that the conversation came up surely means it isn't some small group of outlying men who are just shit. No one would ever talk about a woman "stepping up" to be a good mother, or being respectful to men. The fact even men talk about men in these terms suggests they know it isn't necessarily the norm for them.

I think most men are inherently selfish and lazy, and want the trappings of a family life without actually having to do the drudgery that goes with it.

Agree. Just because the majority are not active rapists, child abusers wife beaters doesn't make them good guys, good dads, or good husbands. The bar is just incredibly low for men.

Agree that the bar is incredibly low for men and they don’t have to do much to be considered good guys. If you use these low standards then yes, the majority are good guys. I used to have a single dad colleague who raised his children on his own. He was a lovely guy but he’d get a crazy amount of praise just for being a father. Like wow, Fred collects the kids from school AND makes them their tea AND reads to them ALL ON HIS OWN every day! This used to sting a bit because I was a single mum doing exactly the same and nobody ever told me how wonderful I was!

Exactly

I think the really good men are a small minority. Apparently my standards are too high though…. said lots of shitty men.

My partner is really lovely, I wouldn’t be with him if he wasn’t, but I genuinely only know a couple of other men that seem as good as he is. So many men I’ve known, including my father and brother, are selfish, misogynistic, don’t want equal relationships with their partners, they’re incapable of consistently caring annd prioritising their children etc. Many appear ok on the surface but once you know them, they’re not good men. Women often put up with it or even excuse it as ‘that’s what men are like’, and I suppose they’re right because so many are, but I wouldn’t put up with it. I saw my mum go through too much and swore I would never have that life.

We have a son (and a daughter) and I hope we have done enough to raise him to be a good man. I do think it’s hard for men with all the toxic masculinity crap that is around, hard but not an excuse to not be a decent person.

I also don’t think a lot of women are what I’d call good either, but obviously the issues women bring are different to those men bring. Society seems quite broken, but I’m not convinced it was ever good, just different. And women being a bit shit is just in response to the rubbish they’ve put up with for so long.

Some of the men in work were talking about how the vast majority of men are really good men, treat women well, step up properly as fathers and husbands and are completely dedicated to their families and kids etc and it's only a small minority of men who aren't or who justify abuse/ cheating/ not parenting presently enough or act in otherwise disrespectful ways towards their spouse/ family/ women.

I guarantee that many if not all of those men say the exact opposite to their daughters and warn them about men and what they're like. They just want to deny the lived experience of women.

The good men that I know will 100% acknowledge that a hell of a lot of men behave very badly and treat women badly and are even shit to their kids, especially after a break up.
A small minority of men.....😂😂

I was actually really surprised at how many of the women in work agreed with them
Some women will have been lucky to have good dads and other decent male family members and got lucky with their partners, others are just really PC.

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I think the majority of men are good men. In my immediate family, only one male has cheated on his wife and the rest are still married to their partners. Amongst friends, I’d say it was only a sprinkling that have cheated, and generally they have remained with their affair partners, rather than being serial cheats.

If you take mn as as a sample, then the data is skewed, because people come on here asking for advice about the errant ones. Theres no need to post about the good ones.

Not at all. Sorry. No.

This is 100% going to be shaped by your own experiences.

Personally, if I look at the men in my family? 1 was an arsehole, broke his family, destroyed lives etc.

The others? All good people, are they perfect? No, but neither are any of the women in my family. They are reasonable dads, husbands, grandpas etc. All led pretty solid and good lives, and did their best. Same as the women.

I think one of the problems though is that men (in general) have a greater capability to cause harm than women, so those that do, are much more destructive and noticeable. But it isn't the majority, and it couldn't be. If the majority of men were awful, society in general just wouldn't work. We, thankfully, are a whole society of mostly rasonable and good people, men and women.

And this is just based on reality, the news, women (if you bother to listen to women) and as you get older more and more experience of this reality. When I was young I too was a bit of Pickmeisha cool girl. Or if you want to be kind, it's just that women are suicidally empathetic and raised in a patriarchy and it takes them about 3 decades plus to really switch their critical thinking on.

I think most are a bit stupid and try to give men the benefit of the doubt when young. You grow out of it.

I heard a story yesterday about a 65yr family man, happily married, on a sporting holiday with friends, who ended up sleeping with a sex worker who accidentally knocked on the wrong hotel room door because “she was there so might as well use the opportunity”. Allegedly had never done anything like it before. Made me think most of them really will behave appallingly if they have the chance

Seriously and sincerely, you absolutely do deserve a medal. Im not on my own and it’s hard enough. Single mums are doing the most difficult job going on their own and when a woman does it, it doesn’t raise an eyebrow. But when a man does it it’s like he’s some kind of god. Irritating.

But it isn't the majority, and it couldn't be. If the majority of men were awful, society in general just wouldn't work

What makes you say this? Do you think that the majority of people have to be good for society to work?

And is society really working well at all?

How can anyone generalise about any man or woman unless they have met all 33 million of them (in the UK alone). You can only base your generalisation on the tiny subset of men you've met and got to know either directly or indirectly, so it isn't possible to say.

presumably you know about biases such as confirmation bias? The men in your office will look for men who are great husbands and partners and discount men who are arses, because it fits with their world view that men are all wonderful human beings.

the men described on MN are universally pondlife because that's who posters talk about. They aren't the typical man at all, there's not such thing,

Based on the dead- beat fathers on here, it is actually easier for a woman to bring up their children alone. Men can be an absolute millstone round a woman's neck, dragging them down in life, so the alternative (not having the millstone) make life a doddle by comparison.