Are the majority of men good guys?

[Musings32]

(nc incase outing)

There was a discussion in my place of work today which has really got me thinking. Some of the men in work were talking about how the vast majority of men are really good men, treat women well, step up properly as fathers and husbands and are completely dedicated to their families and kids etc and it's only a small minority of men who aren't or who justify abuse/ cheating/ not parenting presently enough or act in otherwise disrespectful ways towards their spouse/ family/ women.

I was actually really surprised at how many of the women in work agreed with them because I would have said the majority of men tend to let women and children down in lots of ways and can be really harmful or unreliable.

Personally I haven't had good experiences with a lot of men throughout my life and my marriage taught me that you can think you really know and trust someone and still not know what they are actually capable of- that someone can love you but still be profoundly selfish and justify anything to themselves. I also work in a field where I see the worst of people in general a lot of the time, and it's noticeable that male violence and abuse tends to be more prevalent. I then thought maybe my own experiences and line of work are skewing the picture so I thought I'd poll it to see what others think, maybe to either (hopefully) give myself a reality check or to know I'm not crazy!

So:
YABU I believe the majority of men are "good" men
YANBU I believe "good" men exist but are in the minority

I have to say my DH is a pretty good guy by these standards.
He’s always been hands-on w the DC (they are young adults now) at least in a practical sense. He did bedtime a lot when they were younger as I’d had them all day. He’d take them out for the day if needed (sometimes to his family but at least I could do what I had to do).

Now they def come to me more for emotional help (relationships etc), but I’m more available as work p/t etc. DH is much calmer than me so he has been drafted in to help when they are having a bad MH day as he is good at calming them down and finding solutions . I end up crying!

My physical health has been crap the past few years and he has been pretty supportive as there are things we just can’t do anymore - we find alternative leisure activities now and he does his sports w his mates 1-2 x a week (always has).

He’s no angel, he can really get in on my tits sometimes, hates being wrong and seldom apologises if he is, but I think that’s v much a male trait. He hates being criticised as well, by anyone!!

In my experience, the majority of men don’t prioritise family life. They want things to work for them and hate inconveniencing themselves.

I love my son very much and I sincerely hope that I can raise him to be someone who's kind respectful reliable and who treats others well and is accountable. I think it's important to recognise the reality of the alternative at the same time though, especially when you look at how many really negative male role models and harmful messages are out there now for young men, especially those growing up with the Internet and greater access to so much more information both good and bad. I would imagine any parent wants their child to be the best they can be and I don't think there's contempt in that. It does make me really sad though that his dad's contribution so far to his life was to lie and cheat and walk out altogether and I'd be naive not to recognise that this could be a disadvantage to him compared to someone who's raised with a father who demonstrates a really positive male role model. It also makes me extremely wary of bringing another man into his life because the consequences of when that goes badly can be awful for children as we see on here all the time. I don't think there's any contempt in that.

I see your point. I think my brothers are good men I see how hard they work, they’re measured, thoughtful when it comes to occasions, have good relationships with their kids but I have no idea what they’re like as husbands and partners.
Ive grown up with them and can roll my eyes at stuff, accept their quirks but their partners may not.
Maybe they could give more time to family? Could do more chores? Could prioritise their partners more. I have no idea.
Same with dh. He’s a good man on paper. But he can make me angrier than no other person ever could.
My sons? They’re growing up to be great men in my opinion. Grounded, thoughtful, hardworking but will they be good partners to every partner they have? Probably not.

I agree with this, I don't think it's an inherent thing at all but I do think men and boys have a very different experience of life growing up and in the working world etc than women and girls do and that's got to show eventually, especially if it hasn't been actively challenged. I had a conversation with ds yesterday about how princesses can fight and rescue people too and he was adamant they couldn't - he's just turning 3.

100%

I had similar with my 4 year old, he wants to pretend to be a princess but apparently 'princesses always need help'.

We need to do much much more to combat sexism if we want to raise a generation of good men. For many men this means undoing the conditioning.

In my experience yes, the majority all good people. Same for women. There’s ranges within that and what different people see as good or bad with also have ranges.

Like almost anything, the things you hear are the “bad” ones. It’s like the news…you hear about war for example but not about all the places where there isn’t a war.

Im assuming you’re single and have no sons, and hate your father and brothers too.

Agree, and for young women and girls as well to be able to recognise what's theirs to take on and actually what isn't and what a healthy boundary looks like etc so they aren't sleep walking into awful relationships at young ages or selling themselves short in careers or burning out running after everyone with no thanks and no help because that's what's 'expected' of them.

I think it's worth remembering that the thread question was about majority/minority of men. I don't think anyone here is talking about ALL men as a complete homogeneous group.

No to all of your assumptions actually !

No. Look at the Gisele Pelicot case. The men couldn't give a reason as to why they did it and a philosopher involved in the case said they didn't think they'd done anything wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/13/these-men-think-theyve-done-nothing-wrong-philosopher-tried-understand-gisele-pelicot-rapists

I couldn't say either way. However, I had a useless father, have been cheated on, and the man I thought was good, (uncle by marriage), turned out to be my aunt's abuser. I found out that someone I know, sexually harassed my neighbour. I've been sexually harassed. Spent my younger years being bothered by men. Workplace harassment. When you write it down, it's depressing. I could go on, but I think that's sufficient to cloud your judgement.

I agree with that. It's the old 80:20 rule. 20% of the men make up 80% of problems caused by men. That's because the same "bad" man will be abusive/unhelpful/argumentative etc etc to multiple women over their lives, so will have a negative impact on many women. We see it often on here - a woman who has finally got rid of a "bad" partner seeking advice as to what to do when that ex-partner gets involved with their next "victim" - i.e. how to warn her etc. The 80% majority of men who generally don't cause problems are the "silent majority" that get no attention as they're generally not "newsworthy"!

No. I think the majority of men are in the grey - they’re not a super bad guy, they don’t abuse or rape or harm people. But they make jokes that harm women, they stay friends with bad men, they roll their eyes when Jenny goes on maternity leave, they stare at the arse of the young woman on the train.

Truly good men, who do good for society, who are kind, who see women as equal automatically and who stick up for those who need help are not so common.

So what is the baseline for being a good person?

The baseline that everybody both male and female must adhere to be good?

I'd say something simple and vague, like "do more good than harm" as everyone will have their own ideas as to what they would consider "good". Or something equally vague such as making a positive overall contribution. No one expects perfection and 100% (from either sex!).

I mean, the majority of people are 'in the grey'. I don't think that women are any nicer or kinder or more helpful than men really.

I think as well maybe the terms "good" and "bad" are probably very vague and noone is all of either - I've found it hard to properly articulate because it's hard to define it completely as people can be good or bad depending on the context they're existing in at any given time and from one day to the next and obviously people have great capacity for change, I guess what I was thinking about is probably relating to behaviour in run of the mill life and under a number of general hats that we tend to wear as spouse/ parent/member of society on average etc so expecting consistency across that so I guess what you're really looking at (to my mind at least) is core values of genuine respect for others, genuine personal accountability, overall trustworthiness, empathy and healthy personal boundaries in terms of what behaviour you let yourself engage in because you can understand the impact of your behaviour on others and genuinely care about that. I think if you can do those things to a decent level then you're probably a decent person? I think women are often expected to be more empathetic whereas men are often (and sometimes unfairly) dismissed in that category particularly when in care taking roles. I think men are not often held as closely to account in terms of things like shared workload and life admin (see men who work hard but expect either consciously or unconsciously their wife to do the same plus the additional care taking at home). And healthy personal boundaries can differ as well when you think about the boys will be boys mentality that often exists around issues like porn use, alcohol, low level infidelity or unwanted advances, locker room chat etc all of which impact negatively on women and also negatively on men themselves. I don't think it's mens fault as such, I do think it's a result of how as society we raise young men and women right from infancy. And I do think men are as much a victim in this as women are particularly when you look at the amount of men impacted by male violence, the impact on male mental health and the life expectancy for single men compared to single women. I had a friend who I would class as a good man and he ended up leaving a much loved sports team where he was playing at a good level because he refused to engage with the locker room chat, the casual party drug culture and keeping infidelity secret for each other, because he didn't fit the profile and was honest and direct about calling it out he was made fun of and left out and the entire thing became less enjoyable for him and unsustainable because he was so in the minority.

@Musings32

My husband has experienced the same. He had a couple of hobbies/interests that he had to give up because he didn't agree with the "lad" culture and he said he knew other men gave up too for the same reasons. Not everyone wants to be part of that.

One of the guys who ran one of the hobby groups was very vocal about his frequent conquests with women - he was the kind who'd simply go up to random women and ask them "do you f*" and was very candid in saying that it saved him the effort of "dating" etc as his philosophy was that if he asked enough women, he'd find someone who'd say yes! (to random sex with a stranger!!). He boasted about it regularly, and DH saw him "in action" asking women exactly like that, occasionally, (and a few times saw it working!) so it wasn't just bravado/boasting either. He lost all respect for that bloke and a few others around him who were impressed by the way he acted. The vast majority were like DH and didn't want any part of it, but they just tried to avoid him, but DH and a couple of his friends couldn't even do that and left the group as they didn't want to be "guilty by association".

So, no, not all man subscribe to the lack of respect and abuse of women and some do take steps to avoid being associated with such things.

I generally agree with this.

But you slide in to

I think men are not often held as closely to account in terms of things like shared workload and life admin (see men who work hard but expect either consciously or unconsciously their wife to do the same plus the additional care taking at home).

Which is correct but not all men have partners/spouses, so how can this be part of a baseline for being good.
It is certainly part of a baseline for being a good partner/spouse.

And

And healthy personal boundaries can differ as well when you think about the boys will be boys mentality that often exists around issues like porn use, alcohol, low level infidelity or unwanted advances, locker room chat etc all of which impact negatively on women and also negatively on men themselves.

The only times , in a long while, that I have heard "boys will be boys" is from women (and a really bad Gillette advert).
Porn and alcohol needs looking at at a societal level.
Low level infidelity seems to be from both sexes.
and unwanted advances will not change unless women stop expecting the men to make the first move.

I am not sure what you mean by locker room chat.

I had similar with my 4 year old, he wants to pretend to be a princess but apparently 'princesses always need help'.

You need to acquaint him with the work of Princess Anne.

I agree with a lot of this but I think women often get a pass in different ways.

It's fairly common for men to not pull their weight around the house, but if you have one partner working full time and another working part time when they could actually work full time, or even not working at all, it's much more frequently the woman.

This isn't strictly women's 'fault' as men tend to earn more, often for reasons which shouldn't really be the case, so often it makes sense for the woman to be the primary carer for the kids. And obv it can sometimes make sense for biological reasons (breastfeeding, closer bond with the baby, etc).

However, many women don't really push the career again once the kids are at school if the family is financially stable and it's not often that people reflect on how that impacts the man. I don't think it's always true that "he doesnt mind because he loves his job". I think often he doesn't mind because he loves his family and wants his partner to be happy, and have the best setup for his kids.

But I'm not always convinced the guy sitting in management meetings has it better than the wife having a nice lazy day/attending yoga classes etc. We hear a lot about how the man retains his earning power and is less vulnerable etc, which is true, but this is 'worst case scenario' thinking and I think day to day a lot of men have the more stressful life. Like, at, 10am on a Monday I doubt he thinks "well, the wife's having a chilled morning but at least I'm better off if we divorce".

I know some won't like this comment but I'm being sincere, not trying to play devil's advocate etc. We're disadvantaged in many other ways but I think men don't often have the option of permanently giving up full time work at 30yo.