Thread 18: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

Hello all. I've simplified the opening post as I don't think we need to keep reposting all the links, timelines and so on at this stage of proceedings.

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for 17 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Now three months in, if these threads could wear slogan t-shirts they would be Mark Twain's often misquoted 'The report of my death was an exaggeration'. Applications in writing from correspondents seeking supply parcels of fudge and cider will be tolerated.

Here we are again
Disappointed as can be
All good pals and jolly good company
Strolling round the path
Happy on a spree
All good pals and jolly good company

Never mind the weather, never mind the rain
Now that we're together, whoops we go again!
Whoops, we go again
La-di-da-di-da, la-di-da-di-dee
All good pals and jolly good company

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

That makes me really cringe for so many reasons.

Blimey. I bet the saboteurs of her non existent environmental activism also took 64K from the Hemmings business nearly 20 years ago to frame her.

Many threads ago the real nature of the 'rewilding' at Bill Cole's was discussed and noone could see any evidence that much happened or in fact it was actually necessary there. @KettleSmocks 'Twee Platitudes Involving the Natural World '. 100% right.

The gap between how those two present themselves and reality is massive.

But there aren't many people who advocate FOR closing animals up in small spaces and being cruel to them.

And the kind of people who have no interest in farming methods at all are unlikely to be the kind of people who would read TSP et al anyway. Sal is merely preaching to the already converted, the people who will feel warm and fluffy because she vindicates their beliefs.

And as for conspiracy theories - there will ALWAYS be some 'alternative thinkers' who can believe in the most unlikely propositions. I would guess that the majority are those who fell for the Winn brand hook line and sinker and now can't bring themselves to believe that they have been fooled. So they will hang on until the absolute bitter end trying to justify their faith.

If anything, it's a fascinating case study of human social psychology. I wonder if there is a link between those who would rather believe in a conspiracy and those who see truth as unimportant because "it's a nice story".

This also seems to parallel what we increasingly see going on with wider global issues and politics. Human psychology is unusual indeed.

I think that the 'it's a nice story' readers won't care too much about the conspiracy theory. They are likely the sort of reader who will shrug when confronted by the truth and say 'well, there's some truth in it; even if Tim wasn't terminally ill he was probably not very well, and they did lose their house, it doesn't matter how or why.' So their essential core beliefs will remain untouched. They will continue to think the fluffy thoughts about the messages they took from the books - nature is good, humans are bad, coastline is pretty, Raynor is a wonderful, if flawed, woman.

Conspiracy theorists are more likely to hold other slightly out-there beliefs, and to be unable to adjust their mindsets from the 'must believe in its entirety' to 'some bits true, some bits fake'. They will see any of the more obvious truths as proof that the whole thing is true - they literally will not be able to believe that some things can be inventions while others are true. It's all or nothing. I'd be more interested in just WHY they'd think anyone would invent an entire takedown of a fairly minor (in the scheme of things) author who has no political power and is not an element for social change.

There are also those who defend SW using moral relativism - yes SW has done some bad things but she has put these behind her and more than redeemed herself by all the good work she has done promoting CBD awareness, homelessness, environmental issues, right to roam etc and while TSP may not have been wholly honest it made for a good read.

(PS Pls don't shoot the messenger!)

Pure self congratulatory fantasy does sound likely @Catsandcwtches she is very good at blowing her own trumpet for someone who wants us to believe she is lacking in self confidence. There have been lots of posts on this thread from people who unlike me write and or are very well read, they have brought wonderful insight into these threads, they have concluded that Salray is not very well read or that knowledgeable about literature, she has a superficial knowledge.

I think the same goes for homelessness, terminal illness and the environment. Anybody wanting to inform themselves about these things could spend a short while on the internet and they would be able to become as knowledgeable as Salray. I have friends who are incredibly, knowledgeable, talented or skilled at something but they are not self confident, then you have people like Salray who knows very little, but presents themselves as a spokesperson.

I agree with what you are all saying about this conspiracy theory thing :)

Yes, these wider issues have been part of the reason I've kept being interested.

As I've said, I had no emotional investment in this story as I had voiced my doubts, before the controversy, and had not read any of the books or seen the film. I do feel it must leave you with an emptiness if the hope from this story is then dashed. A poster, a couple of days ago, said that TSP had helped them through a difficult time.

It is part of who we are that we connect to meaningful stories. That is why I think the contributors, on here, who were deceived but are revisiting it are honest and strong. They will also be helping others.

And, to be honest, people will read and enjoy almost anything. There are traditionally published books that are a hot mess when it comes to narrative; the storyline is all over the place, there are plot holes you could drive a bus through, spelling and grammar is - questionable (and yes, quite a lot does get past a proof reader, just witness the number of books where "I was sat" gets used). But the readers love it because they just skim over the more obvious mistakes and gobble the story up with a spoon.

Many many readers (far more than we would like to think) are completely uncritical about story elements. They just want 'the feels'.

Agreed, but SW highlights issues in what I see as a 'cut and paste from google' fashion and most readers would already have been aware of them. I wonder just how many of her readers have been ignited into activism by her words. Some may have made a donation to a charity (which is good) but I don't think many will have done more than that.

I wonder what her feelings are about foreigners buying up land and then leaving it unused. Though I suppose she would call it the ultimate in rewilding.

Yes, exactly. And likewise very few who will go, ‘God, I absolutely hate the natural world, come to think of it — I love me a bit of light and air pollution, and much prefer a grimy urban underpass knee-deep in litter to a field of buttercups full of skylark song!”

And of course TSP presents a very cutesy view of homelessness, aimed at the same feelgood readership. They’re nice, white, middle-class people with conveniently green-up children, unexpectedly made homeless because of a Big Business Betrayal that ruthlessly takes their self-restored farm at the same time as they’re laid low by the husband getting a terminal diagnosis, and who make a brave and eccentric decision to go and walk a LD path.

Whereas many homeless women are escaping domestic violence and living in single rooms in refuges with several small children, trying to hold down jobs or claim benefits and feed their children and get them to school, and it’s all debilitatingly difficult and unglamorous and not book-worthy.

Other homeless people are dealing with drug addiction, alcoholism, mental illness, and/or are former prisoners. It’s not as adorable a picture as two devoted spouses getting out their old rucksacks and walking off hand in hand on what could be an extended hiking holiday.

That to me is cosplaying homelessness, and frankly insulting to people genuinely dealing with it longterm, or people doing good work trying to combat it.

I have a cousin like this.

They always know everything about everything even if there's a real expert in the room. They're the best at anything, and can't bear any attention on anyone else. I remember commenting how flexible babies were. The rather plump not-very-fit cousin replied "So, I'm far more flexible". He declined to pose for a photo...
Because he's so confident, people don't like to challenge him. If people do, or he feels challenged because someone is acknowledged to be better than him, he attacks, very much a bully. And if those people come forward for support the phrase "It's just XXX. That's just the way he is, he's just being funny/passionate etc ..."

I think this is something we see in Salray. It's not enough that they have to be seen as doing something well, they have to be seen as the best and all the others aren't really doing it right, and anyone who says otherwise is to be silenced.

I also wonder if Sal and Tim had been physically attacked by a paranoid schizophrenic forced by increased MH cuts to live on street and unable to access medication - would she still have had the same attitude?

I didn't read this book before seeing the exposé and I was not emotionally invested, I was attracted because of the health angle. I have said way back that I have a teenage DD who has various conditions two neurological. The bain of my life are people who suggest stupid ideas, oh why don't you try such and such, instead of the medication that is the only option for continued life.

They will tell you how they read this book about a man with a terminal illness who reversed it by walking! it has the same affect on me that I see in @Vroomfondleswaistcoat steam comes out of my ears. I know they are well meaning, but you think, if it was that simple don't you think we would have tried it? walking for instance we have learned is good for some conditions and not for others.

Yes @MargaretThursday Salray comes across to me as a bully and I agree @KettleSmocks my life is unglamorous and not book-worthy, if however I gave it the Salray treatment I might have a best seller and the fact that I can't write shouldn't hold me back :)

I must make it clear that my DD does not have a terminal diagnosis, her conditions are chronic but she has a normal life expectancy, I just wanted to be very clear about that.

Did she pay everyone back once she had made her millions? Donate loads to the CBD charity? Homeless charities? Pay back the campsite owner/small business owners?

@izzywizzyletsgetbizzywynthomas yes SW has done some bad things but she has put these behind her

There is no evidence that Raynor has put anything behind her. Your friends may like this piece - inspired by the Raynor Winn statement and the Green/Blue passage in TSP:

legal advice - legal advice,
grotesquely unfair- highly misleading
my lawyers
allegations - inaccurate
unfair allegations
highly misleading narrative
made up - made up
the allegation that I embezzled money
The dispute with Martin Hemmings
when mistakes were being made
Any mistakes I made
an allegation against me to the police,
accusing me
the hate that has come my way
We are accused of hiding
nothing hiding

It sounds fascinating but is bad news for the WalkerWinns. Wonder if they might move when there's renewed interest.

Absolutely “no evidence that (she) has put anything behind her”. She was in full flow before the spanner got flung into her works and made her machine grind to a halt. She can now stop being an inspirational speaker, a paradigm of virtue signalling, a spokesperson for CBD, a teacher of writing and alternative healer. The only thing that is behind her is her career. I fully believe she is going to sue for defamation of character and claim that her loss of earnings are somebody else’s fault.

Yes, one notes she dwells far more on ‘nice’ homelessness — the discreet woodland community of rural labourers priced out by second homers, and the cool young lifeguards and seasonal worker/surfers who live in horse boxes etc on the German guy’s land.

The only encounter with the grimmer side of homelessness in TSP is the night spent in a city (is it in Plymouth?) when they meet Dean and the other men they talk to, and there’s fear, fighting and alcoholism. But it’s not dwelt on because it doesn’t make for a ‘nice story’, and TSP is about platitudes and the inspiring power of the natural world. Which, frankly, isn’t going to help Dean and his mates.

I was interested that the film redirects that to the invented-for-the-film episode of the Walkers helping a homeless teenage girl they met at a soup kitchen, abd gives her the happy ending of getting away to her grandmother’s house. It’s cuter.

And in the film the seasonal workers living in sheds and horse boxes and the woodland dwelling labourers have both morphed, slightly weirdly, into a full-blown hippy encampment with a campfire and alternative hair/tattoos.

From the rebuttal on her website:
When, much later, I received an advance for The Salt Path, we used this to repay what we could. Over the subsequent years I tracked down our remaining debts and now believe I have tracked down and repaid everyone.

I do not owe, as claimed in the Observer, hundreds of thousands of pounds to those who evicted us from our home. We have never been informed that the repossession did not satisfy the matter. We have never heard from the claimants since we left our home and they have made no attempt to contact us, despite my keeping all communication channels open so that they could.

And to the man in the garage, who says I owe him money - if I have missed a debt, please contact me.

Does this include the camp sites and the stolen fudge? What about other people like the garage owner who would not appear anywhere officially but that would have to be remembered individually? Also, I find the comments on the people who had the sold-on debt interesting as a) I doubt the lines of communication were open whilst being ‘homeless’ and being sometimes known under another name and b) it was mentioned elsewhere that due to the length of time, they cannot be pursued through the courts for the debt, so I wonder if WinnWalkers, believe the debt to be void because these people were jolly unfair and meanies?

SW representing herself in court: ‘I put it to you, Your Honour, that I don’t owe any money because these people were Jolly Unfair and Meanies!’

Sits down, triumphant, to a round of applause, confident of having made a compelling case.

Yes, one does wonder about many things related to that debt, if the house was heavily mortgaged when repossessed, and the mortgage lender would automatically have first call on the money made from its sale — though presumably when the family member who lent the £100k they would have checked whether it was mortgaged? And whether the defaulter on that loan is still liable if the debt isn’t satisfied by the sale of the property against which it was secured, even if action would have needed to be taken within a certain time period.

SW seems to feel that choosing not to declare themselves bankrupt was somehow admirable of them, and specifically says in her rebuttal they didn’t do it because they hoped to repay their debts at some point. But I doubt it was for any noble reason — why didn’t they?

A small and slightly conspiracy-theory part of me wonders whether she'd already planned to write TSP and declaring themselves bankrupt wouldn't fit in with the narrative she'd already come up with....

As you say @KettleSmocks declaring bankruptcy wouldn't have stopped the house being repossessed any debts secured by mortgage would stand, it would stop them from being company directors and you are probably right @Vroomfondleswaistcoat they could already have been scheming their next move, bankruptcy seems more self inflicted.