Neighbour has put up huge Unite the Kingdom flag

[UrticaDioca]

I am gutted. I haven't seen a single flag in my town, and suddenly this union jack goes up two doors over with the words 'Unite the Kingdom' printed on it in capital letters. The flag is huge and flying from a pole on top of their shed, but it's in their own garden so nothing can be done.

I am the daughter of an immigrant mother and therefore mixed race. Now I have to see this fucking flag waving at me every time I look out of my kitchen or living room windows.

You said: 'That does not make you a racist. Allying yourself with racists does though.'

I pointed out it is more nuanced than that.

Yaxley-Lennon now has an online shop selling UTK merchandise. Fools and their money etc.

I think it's being done in a very intentional way. Over and over and over. The constant faux naivety, the brushing aside of associations with far right extremists, the suggestions that we should "reclaim" the flag by just joining in. It's pretty transparent to most of us, but it may prove to be an effective strategy for reeling in those who don't tend to look beyond the surface of anything.

No you didn't. Maybe that's what you were attempting to do, but you crashed and burned. Never mind!

Your nuance seems to suggest that vegetarians should fly swastikas because they like the vegetarian bit of Hitler’s beliefs. After all, they are intelligent enough to separate it from the genocide bit….

ooh has that bout of virtue signalling given you a nice tummy glow?

sweet

I agree wholeheartedly! And I so wish we could dump the terms black and white. We are all on one brown continuum, from lightest beige to darkest brown!

We may be oranges, apples, pears, but we are all fruit.

It's not more nuanced than that and your false comparison of Hitler's vegetarianism is utterly laughable. (Had Hitler organised a vegetarian rally, it may well have been attended by vegetarian Nazis, but the irony of a man being opposed to the killing of animals, whilst directing the slaughter of millions of fellow human beings, would not be lost on those who saw him for what he was - a vicious, violent, immoral, insane racist.)
And @CurlewKate 's comment "Loads of people are concerned about immigration. That does not make you a racist. Allying yourself with racists does though." couldn't be clearer, and the fact that you disingenuously pretend not to understand it is very telling. Many UK citizens are very concerned about uncontrolled immigration, but we wouldn't dream of attending a rally organised by the violent, racist thug, Tommy Ten Names. All those people who attended his rally, but claim not to be racist, could have organised their own rally. Why didn't they? Why on earth would they attend a rally organised by a racist if they aren't? Why would they want to be associated with such a racist? The old adage applies: "If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas." Now they're going to have to own their racism, whether they like it or not. Too bad.

Where I live, there are suddenly loads of these, everywhere. They don't need to include the TR 'Unite the Kingdom' slogan to make clear what they're about: I've seen the flaggers up their ladders putting them up, and they make their rationale perfectly clear to anyone nearby, if asked. What also makes very clear that the intention is not innocent 'pride in our country' is the fact that they rip down stickers other people who object or would just prefer our streets not to look like this, place on the lamp-posts with phrases like 'we all live here together' or 'no hate on our streets' - literally directly and specifically affirming that there will be 'hate on our streets'. Disingenuous in the extreme to say things like 'it's literally the flag of this country, what's to be offended about?'

Just because you didn't understand the analogy...

Not at all. It points out that a person can agree with certain aspects of someone's beliefs whilst disagreeing with others. It is really that simple.

So to suggest anyone who supports TR is an automatic racist is ridiculous. Not one of us knows the reasoning behind why individuals attended the September 13th rally and throwing out these all encompassing labels such as 'racist' at hundreds of thousands of people is lazy, dismissive and extremely divisive.

Op..I'm not white and if any of my neighbours put up a st George's flag or anything saying "unite the kingdom" or told me that they are voting reform I'd be absolutely gutted.

My neighbours are genuinely lovely and dote on our kids so I know it wouldn't be directed at us personally but I'd still be sad to think that if they didn't know us personally they would think of us as a big problem. In fact I'd be even sadder than if it was an overt racist because it would show how endemic this view is even among normally nice people.

I try to avoid talking politics with them because I don't want to know their views. If they were racist or xenophobic I don't think id say anything or stop talking to them because as I said they are lovely to us but yeah id be gutted.

Huge hugs..whatever your neighbour means or thinks it's not a nice thing to have right in front of your house. A constant reminder that some people basically think of us as vermin.

No. The Union flag is the flag of the UK. It can have various meanings including a statement of Britishness or of Britain's political stance or British support for something. It is legitimate to fly the flag outside your house, though this would be very un-British - unlike flying a St George, which, being the flag of Engaland, can be flown by the English just as one might fly a saltire or a dragon flag - NB when the girl in a Spice girl dress (who appeared at the Unite the Kingdom march) was sent home from her school's culture day so was a boy wearing the Welsh dragon; I am not sure what one makes of that.

Is tommy Robinson known for anything apart from racism, xenophobia and islamophobia? Is he a big climate change activist? Animal rights supporter? Is he campaigning for better welfare support? Anti abortion?

As far as I know everything he stands for and talks about is covered by racism, xenophobia and islamophobia. (Except maybe during the period when he had converted to islam)..if you don't support racist, xenophobic or islamophobic views then don't attend his rallies. I'm sure you can find a more relevant rally than that.

What is the 'pride in our country' that these groups are thinking of? What is is they're proud of? Because they generally seem quite angry and disparaging about 'our country' and that's another reason the flags read to so many like a statement about who doesn't belong and should leave, rather than one about how great we all are.

But you are basically saying that some people would have attended Nazi rallies led by Adolph Hitler because they agreed with his vegetarianism but not the demonisation of the Jews, but that they could just brush past the anti-Jewish stuff. It's patently absurd.

It's pretty offensive to desecrate a national flag with political slogans, no?

They are a bunch of patriots, though. Fed up patriots being told their country, history, culture, way of life etc is evil, wicked and should be de-colonised and trashed. I don't blame them TBH.

'a man being opposed to the killing of animals, whilst directing the slaughter of millions of fellow human beings, would not be lost on those who saw him for what he was - a vicious, violent, immoral, insane racist.)'

Agreed! That doesn't mean a vegetarian would not agree with his views on eating meat though! You see how we can separate the beliefs from the person and find things that we may actually agree on whilst still disliking the person and some of their other ideas. The Hitler example was a purposely extreme one because it highlights the duality that can exist within people.

'Allying yourself with racists does though." couldn't be clearer,'
I think it is ignorant to write off anyone who attends a TR march as a racist, so I don't believe it is as clear as that.

'Many UK citizens are very concerned about uncontrolled immigration.' At least we can agree on this.

'All those people who attended his rally, but claim not to be racist, could have organised their own rally. Why didn't they?' I suspect some of the reason people attended the TR rally was because it had the most momentum. Number matter is the government are to take heed.

'Why would they want to be associated with such a racist?' Right back at you... Why would Palestine protesters want to be associated with Hamas. Is everyone who attends these protests a terrorist? Because 'if you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.' Or do you conveniently not tar everyone with the same brush when they are on the left?

You make a good point with which I somewhat agree. I too would never go on a pro-Palestinian march. I wouldn't go on a Unite the Kingdom march either. But I did see several interviews with people on the UtheK march who distanced themselves from racism - some of them were immigrants, which tells another story.
There is no way we have of protesting that things are done in our name that we thoroughly disagree with and know to be wrong. What to do?

Primarily I think he is known for exposing the grooming gangs and being ignored by the authorities for 20 years but that's another topic.

It's not for you tell people what rallies they can attend. Nor can you assume their reasons. Most people attend these protests because they don't agree with mass illegal immigration, that does not mean they are racist people. How do you explain the black and brown attendees?

I haven't said that at all. You've literally made up a story in your head.

I said a person can agree with certain aspects of a someone's belief system whilst disagreeing with other aspects.

Some of the men behind those campaigns are:

Tommy Robinson, who has convictions for fraud, illegally entering a country on false documents, harassment, stalking, abh, and possession with intent to supply (and doesn't even live in the UK)

Andy Currie, who was jailed for his part in a racist fight that lead to a death in 2009.

Lee Twamley, who served time for being part of an illegal immigration operation in 2016 (I am not joking).

Guramit Singh, who was jailed for tying up a shop assistant and threatened to slash his throat in an attempted robbery.

And Paul Golding, leader of Britain First and self proclaimed fascist with several hate crime convictions.

What a proud bunch of patriots, I wonder what it is about them that you like so much? 🤔

It's not for you to tell me what assumptions I can make about other people. If you support tommy Robinson a lot of people will think you are racist. If you care about being called racist then don't support tommy Robinson or attend his rallies.

Also, tommy Robinson did not expose the grooming gangs. Do people really believe that? He just exploited the grooming scandal to further his racist views.

Black and brown people can be racist, xenophobic and islamophobic. And ignorant.

I guess this is where we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think you can distance yourself from racism if you choose to go on a march that has been organised by a notorious racist. By being there, you are effectively condoning it.

Perhaps it's also worth adding here that being an immigrant doesn't necessarily make you immune from racism.