‘Coming out’ as non binary

[Neverbeentothegym]

Just reading about another celebrity ‘coming out’ as non binary, saying ‘there’s days when I feel more masculine, and days when I feel more feminine’. I’m putting money on the fact that they are never in a position where the world treats them absolutely as one of those genders, and all the shit that comes with it.
I am a woman who has always felt masculine.

But even if I feel this way, as a single parent, school will always call me. School will always expect me to deliver clean, tidy, organised children on time. The council/ social services/ society expected me to pick up the pieces when their dad left. No one from their side has offered me respite/ support or even acknowledgement. In the same way, their dad has never been punished or held accountable to do anything or help at all. The NHS expected me to prioritise the health and well-being of the foetus I was carrying and did nothing to check or impose the same restrictions on the father of the child. No employers will underpay or make judgements about a man’s ability to not get pregnant at an inconvenient time or take too much time off for caring responsibilities.
So it all means jack shit. I could come out as non binary tomorrow and not one of the above named societal expectations would change.

Nothing to do with the patriarchy, it's a generation of attention seeking teenagers and celebrities.
It used to be called mental health issues.

Exactly.

I don't think about my vagina when I'm just "being". It's the "non binaries" i.e white sausage legs in a micro skirt, Doc marten boots, blue scruffy unstyled short hair with mousy brown roots, shaved bit at the side,black stonewashed "ac/DC" t shirt , steel rimmed big Square glasses, septum piercing and a megaphone that seemed obsessed that their vagina some how gets in the way of whether they can do certain things or not. Enjoyed hanging around with your dad in the garage ? Damn that vagina ! Must be "non binary" 🙄🙄🙄

There’s some great posts on here, thank you for starting it @Neverbeentothegym

@KeebabSpiderthank you for your posts, in particular, you’re educating me

Its so empowering to have a thread that touches on many aspects of my own lived experiences (not a phrase I normally use but I’ve given myself a free pass for this )
I was at Uni in the late 80’s and started working in the early 90’s. There was often underlying misogyny, frankly offensive stereotyping, routine underpayment and no route for discussion - let alone raising a grievance. Societal expectations were ingrained & it was a fairytale that they would change.
With a scientific education, I know the ‘non-binary’ option is a label
based on opinion only, the same with transgender - but I don’t want to stop anyone living in that manner, if it suits them & they are inoffensive to others.

I suppose I’m also a bit jealous that the recognition of the societal restrictions & expectations has only become mainstream in my later life - trying to fight against it in my 20’s & 30’s was hard work!

Coming out as non binary IMHO either means person is teen and therefore can be excused or is self absorbed and thinks anyone else cares.
I think non binary is a retrograde step towards defined characteristics for male and female and the non-binary person is so cool that they are therefore different and transcendent.
Whatever happened to boys wearing dresses and butch looking girls. It felt a lot more genuinely forward looking in the 80s when everyone wore make up and bright clothing but didn’t feel the need to label their sexuality to match this.

I have zero idea what you mean by this,

surely you don’t mean all
women share traits that make us amazing? We are all different.

I mean "celebrity " is a stretch isn't it ? A vaguely well know woman needs some attention is probably more accurate, It is all absolute nonsense.

We have to think ‘who benefits from this?’ Who benefits from some women feeling that the term ‘woman’ used by society (usually a term used to mean straight, vulnerable ,mother) doesn’t feel appropriate for them. Therefore, syphoning them off into ‘non binary’ meaning they are less likely to fight for women’s rights, less likely to empathise with women. I notice the younger women I have encountered through work or training seem to care much, much more about transwomen than they do about women’s rights. I don’t see them going to protests about fair pay, child maintenance payments , SEND services, safe spaces, and the fact that the number of women killed by men is between 124 and 168 a year. On average, 62% of these women will have been killed by a current or former partner.
Is it too real for them? Too depressing? These women who have been killed could have been non binary. It won’t impact the statistics.

I do think that the young women you are talking about see non binary or trans women as a subset of being female and need these protections and i think they think they need protection from men !

I have adult Dds the younger 1 is 27 and is beginning to realise that her rights and safety is more important but that has only been in the last year, before then it was very much trans.rights first, my 30s dd were not sucked in really,

I don't know why this shift is happening that women need to identify as non binary as if being female is a weakness.

There are 2 SEXES - 1 has large gametes (female) and 1 small gametes (male).. if you gave birth you are female.

I don’t identify as anything - I just ‘am’ female. That is why I was sexually assaulted by a male. Hope that helps!

People can dress as they like - but a male wearing a skirt is still a male.

Ridiculous bollox.

”I don't understand why women, especially feminists are so aggressively against trans and non binary people. I don't accept that there are only 2 genders and am very concerned about how early this starts, recently looking for gifts for a newborn.”

Because you can’t ’identify’ yourself out of oppression. Women and ‘especially feminists’ know this. It’s in ‘dummies guide to power’ which incidentally starts virtually as soon as you’re a newborn - especially in cultures where boys are prized or FGM is a feature. No transing or identifying out of those horrors. Why about that don’t you get?

You do understand you just don't agree ? You are entitled to your beliefs and opinion. .I don't think i am against non binary people as people I just don't think there is such a thing as non binary because I don't believe men and women have to "feel" or "act" a certain way to be accepted as male or female.

I thought the only non binary people were children of celebrities. It’s as if they come to a stage when their fame is fading and suddenly - would you believe it - my children are non binary. Give it a rest. I feel for people who are genuinely confused and may be trans but non binary is a phase that parents cater to.

This is interesting. I found that a lot of young people in the care system had gender dysphoria. Some children were diagnosed with Autism and even emergent EUPD. They had suffered huge levels of trauma and undoubtedly had complex PTSD and attachment disorders.

Life now is complicated, full of complexity that young people are not able to negotiate. On top of this the children I worked with had no idea who they were, and what.

A couple of girls insisted on swapping genders when they changed their clothes. One fluctuated between both genders and non binary depending on many things.

It's interesting to me that girls want to disavow being women maybe because they believe women to be weaker. Whilst many of these late adult male transitioners want to be women precisely because they have fetishised their perception as women as weak, and boy don't they like sticking the boot in to biological females.

I was puzzled by this message too! Do you ALSO identify as a human? Lol

Your post is exactly why most adult women, usually with children but always with some experience of life can’t be bothered with this non binary stuff anymore.

I just find it all so tedious, performative and attention seeking.

A sort of friend “came out” as non binary last year - she so clearly wanted a big celebration, and attention, and for everybody to be super impressed by how bravely she is living her authentic life and Jesus Christ, maybe she could just get a hobby instead of this adolescent navel gazing and mithering on about how she feels.

She was very angry/disappointed when most of our mutual friends reacted in a kind of “oh ok” way and clearly didn’t give a crap. She ended up “calling me out” (her words) about the fact that I’d shown no interest, so I told her that’s because I’m not interested, and that really it’s none of my business or concern how she identifies as we’ve only ever talked about tennis and puppies and neither of those interests are affected. She hasn’t talked to me since which I’m counting as a win.

It does sound complex young girls and boys having to deal with so much it like they are just detaching !

It’s not a thing! How ridiculous is this world becoming!

I don't see the point in arguing the toss really. Live and let live as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else (which I don't think non binary does - trans is another matter).

I have 3 non binary friends (not close friends by any means, just people I'm friendly with from a hobby group). All 3 are aged between 22 and 26, all 3 are autistic and all 3 have significant mental health issues (self harm, depression, anxiety) which have eased significantly since 'coming out' as non binary. One has changed their name to a unisex but mostly male name, one uses a gender neutral shortened version of their real name and the third goes by their surname but has a secret male name that their parents don't know about. 2 practise chest binding but only some of the time. 2 know that they are women, I'm not sure about the 3rd (they say that they are leaning more towards being a transman than non binary). Only one has a supportive family. I suppose what I'm saying is they're all basically just messed up young people looking for an identity. I don't believe non binary is a concrete 'thing' but it is a 'thing' as long as there are significant numbers of young people embracing it so there's no point in not accepting it. I refer to them as they choose and nod along. I assume at some point they will grow out of it but who knows. They're lovely people regardless so it makes no difference to me.

There will have to be a new label soon I think, because NB will be too mainstream

How does this person identifying as non binary harm you? You seem to have taken it quite personally somehow… It sounds like you equate womanhood to struggle and that non binary people who haven’t faced the same realities are responsible for perpetuating them. Some of what you have experienced as a single parent sounds really hard. But I’m not less of a woman because I’ve not experienced the same.

You have got this completely arse about tit!

Non-binary plays into the idea of gender stereotypes, rather than railing against it. A non-binary identity can only exist where there are societal gendered expectations.

I am a woman, doing the things that interest me, just being me. Some of that may lean stereotypically 'feminine' and some more 'masculine'. It doesn't need a label though, it's called having a personality.

It bothers me because it's utter nonsense. There is a sexual binary, but personalities are infinite. There is no need to 'identify' as anything. You are what you are, and our language has pronouns that coordinate with your sex, which you cannot control, no matter how hard you try. The way to live well is to accept the things you cannot change (your DNA, your sex) and pursue your interests, which can be anything at all and need not be influenced by whether you're a man or a woman. Expecting the rest of the world to remember that you're extra special and need different pronouns to the rest of us normies is just annoying, honestly.

I would have said something like this a couple of years ago, but the time for this kind of ridiculous naïveté has passed.
It is hurting someone, they are hurting themselves and other young people who go along with it. These are vulnerable young adults, they should be encouraged to be themselves and if they don’t fit into a box of what a woman should look like that means they’re being an individual not “non binary”.
Breast binders are harmful and do have side effects and wearing them is often a first step that leads down the path of taking testosterone (terrible side effects) and irreversible surgeries likely to lead to lifelong health issues.
I’m sure they are lovely people but that’s really not the point.