‘Coming out’ as non binary

[Neverbeentothegym]

Just reading about another celebrity ‘coming out’ as non binary, saying ‘there’s days when I feel more masculine, and days when I feel more feminine’. I’m putting money on the fact that they are never in a position where the world treats them absolutely as one of those genders, and all the shit that comes with it.
I am a woman who has always felt masculine.

But even if I feel this way, as a single parent, school will always call me. School will always expect me to deliver clean, tidy, organised children on time. The council/ social services/ society expected me to pick up the pieces when their dad left. No one from their side has offered me respite/ support or even acknowledgement. In the same way, their dad has never been punished or held accountable to do anything or help at all. The NHS expected me to prioritise the health and well-being of the foetus I was carrying and did nothing to check or impose the same restrictions on the father of the child. No employers will underpay or make judgements about a man’s ability to not get pregnant at an inconvenient time or take too much time off for caring responsibilities.
So it all means jack shit. I could come out as non binary tomorrow and not one of the above named societal expectations would change.

I would have been seething so hard!!

Maybe I am non binary as I would rather drink beer than wine and only wear skirts/dresses when I really need to…. or maybe I am just a female with my own preferences that doesn’t need a label

I have known and worked with transgender and non binary people, it's not so unusual where I live. I identify as a woman and have a male partner and a son. I think our society demeans and oppresses women . One of the ways is the focus on femininity to a manic extent. Madonna etc all have a lot to answer for. I don't understand why women, especially feminists are so aggressively against trans and non binary people. I don't accept that there are only 2 genders and am very concerned about how early this starts, recently looking for gifts for a newborn.

Yup.

Its just attention seeking indulged nonsense.

I don't understand what 'identify as a woman' means. Are you a woman or you not a woman?

@Dummydimmerbecause gender, like race, is largely something society puts on us. I don’t wake up and feel like a woman. A woman is an identity forced on me with all the expectations and limitations which goes along with it. I can call myself whatever, and wear whatever, but like I said when you’re a single woman raising kids on your own, society will make you feel like a walking uterus and it’s all on you. They do not expect the same of a man, and this shit means they never will.

If you gave birth to your son then I am entirely sure that you ARE, in fact, a woman. No need to have to go through the hassle of identifying that.

It really doesn't bother me. If someone announces they're nonbinary, great, crack on. I'm happy for you that you feel confident in who you are and have an identity you feel fits. I will happily use your preferred pronouns.

Do I 'get' being nonbinary? Not really, not always, sometimes I do with some people. For some others it seems a bit odd when they present as completely feminine, present with a feminine name, but say they're nonbinary, but it's not my job to understand.

There is no such thing as non binary. It's a completely self absorbed naval gazing piece of attention seeking. You can't "feel" your chromosomes. I can't get over just how regressive it is. So if you have xx chromosomes you must instantly like plaits/pink bows/dollies and sparkly eye shadow. If you don't : you are no longer female. You are "non binary".

You try and consistently keep referring to a 'her' as 'they' (we had one at work who was very righteous) it is almost impossible. And I think they love and revel in the linguistic gymnastics and red faces.

It needs abolishing. You're male or female. I can get my head around a man that wants to be referred to as a woman and vice Versa (although biologically they are still as they were born ) but I can fathom the "he"-ing and "she"-ing. I can do that. "They" - pathetic.

My teenage DS has a friend who's a girl and identifies as non-binary. He keeps calling her 'she' and then correcting himself - he accepts she's non-binary but it's very hard to overcome the evidence of his eyes and experience. It makes their relationship unnecessarily awkward.

Back in the dark ages (the 90s) teenagers said and did stupid things like wear all black and claim to have the soul of a vampire and everyone around them smiled and said 'yes dear' and waited for them to grow up. Now, teenagers say they have masculine energy or some such and everyone falls over themselves to 'validate' it. No wonder teenagers are so bloody anxious - they can't be tall toddlers anymore, everything they do is given far too much weight.

How did you not step into your masculine energy an assert yourself.....flipping heck this is where it starts. Your daughter sounds fab.

Irrespective of whether since (surplus value was created through agriculture) men wage war and women bake cakes there seems to be some confusion around what is imperative and material (objective and real) and what is socially constructed and subjectively felt. What is subjectively felt is reinforced to the point of being disconnected from material reality and to what end.

If Bob rocks up in a dress today and a lobstertail helmet tomorrow, if Bob tells me on Tuesday he is Sarah and on Thursday he is Bob, on Tuesday he was still Bob in a dress.

I have no issue being a woman who collects antique flintlocks and lobstertail helmets, wearing mens clothes and asserting myself all the while understanding that my lived experience, my biology, and others perception matches reality, I am still a woman.

If I thought (as post modernist philosophy teaches) that gender could be destructed since its constructed then I'd hope that gender stereotypes would disappear, but nope they are being constantly reinforced.

My hope is that with our entire economic social system collapsing around us that people will avert their attention away from post modern philosophy and claptrap and start to realise one can not as Foucault posited rebel through the "technologies of self" and think yourself free. Instead we should "make" ourselves free. The starting point is material reality and the end point an end to what is essentially a maladaptive individualised reaction to a deeply divided and unequal society.

Bob can not think himself free of gender stereotypes all the while enforcing them.

Not sure how I managed to put the giphy thing there and can't edit.

@AgDulAmachindeed. It’s not grammatically correct. And don’t even get me started on women, in straight relationships with children, calling themselves queer. You’re not dealing with homophobia every day, you’re not constantly re correcting people when they talk about ‘the dad’ or ‘the husband’. You’re not looking up holiday destinations to see whether you’ll be spat on in the street. You’re not quietly fuming at the discussions on how sad being childless is, and putting up with your mum grieving for grandchildren she’ll never have. You’re not consoling your child on Father’s Day or sports day when there’s constant questions from the other kids about sperm donors and absent fathers and genes. Your reality is nothing like the every day experiences of lesbians today.

I quite liked it. I’m going to start opening my posts with a GIF greeting.

I don’t even really know what ‘masculine energy’ even means. I’m so sick of people desperately trying to fit themselves into neat little boxes. Shouldn’t the clear difficulty and confusion this is causing be a sign that all human beings are individuals and don’t fit into neat little boxes?! I’m a lesbian, I rarely wear dresses or skirts or heels but I do wear make-up, I don’t wear men’s clothes and I consider all my mannerisms to be pretty feminine. I don’t think I have ‘masculine energy’ but I’m comfortable in myself as my own type of woman. I may occasionally wear a dress and heels to a wedding or something, not cos I feel I have to cos I’m a woman but just cos I find one that looks cool and fits my style, and I’d wear the heels with it cos I wouldn’t want to look frumpy wearing flat shoes. If it’s the right kind of outfit that fits my style I enjoy feeling feminine but with ‘an edge’ if that makes sense. I reeeally don’t understand women coming out as non-binary just cos they don’t feel ‘feminine’ some days. I’d say that’s most women. Doesn’t mean you’re no longer a woman ffs!

Yes. THIS. Can’t bear these middle-class, straight, white women calling themselves queer in a desperate attempt to seem oppressed or interesting! Just because you fit the ‘boring’ stereotype doesn’t mean you ARE boring, it’s so unoriginal. Find some original ways to not be boring if you’re that bothered about what other people think. It’s the modern day version of a quarter - mid-life crisis! And be thankful you have a life free from discrimination and all the negative shit that comes along with actually being a genuine minority

I don't accept that there are only 2 genders

Do you believe that genders @Dummydimmer - however many there are - have corresponding sexes? If so, could you give an example of a gender that aligns with each sex and why you believe it does?

If not, how is it possible to have a gender that doesn't correspond with your sex (ie the criteria to be transgender)?

If you would be kind enough to answer that, and not a different question, I'd be most grateful.

It’s a nonsense term and the irony is that the people using it are saying they don’t fit into the ‘box’ of man or woman, so they’re making their own, smaller box. All of the extra genders intended to do away with traditional gender stereotypes just reinforce those original stereotypes and create more unnecessary and divisive labels. What we should be doing is saying ‘there is no typical man or woman, everyone is different and that’s fine’.

[NB I am in no way saying there is no difference between men and women, biological sex is not in question, we just need to stop conflating our biological nature with how we feel about, for example, what we want to wear or what pastimes we are interested in pursuing.]

100%

I now, looking back feel so privileged to have grown up in the 90s. My childhood was so simple and so happy (in general ) :

The joy of a 'girl talk' magazine or J17 /sugar as you got older

The joy of Saturday morning kids TV and the simplicity of having limited choice about what you watch .

No parents monitoring you on apps.

No talk of non binary/gender fluid/gender queer. Gay friends (you knew !) but, it was just.... Quietly accepted..

I miss being bollocked by a teacher for being naughty at high school. You were shouted at and berated. But there was no documentation and 'assessments' and 'referals'

Homework was a sheet of paper with some questions on. Not 109 different apps.

Boy bands/girl bands. Not stupid YouTubers talking bollocks. I'm sure those quick dopamine hit "reels" contribute to ADHD.

I yearn for the 90s/early 2000s. I think it must have been one of the best eras to be a teen in.

Wait what? You don’t get a bollocking from teachers anymore? What do they do?? How else would you know you stepped out of line? ( I’m so out of date!)

What I mean by that is : you were bollocked off and it was forgotten about. Done. Dusted.

Now everything Is written down. Pyschoanalysed. Looking for "diagnoses" that aren't there. Reported and stuck in some computer system that follows the child forever.

Also 90s- i was s a tomboy but no one ever suggested i was a lesbian. Nowadays they would because you have to fit in some kind of box.

Wow, that's such an amazing answer.

I'm far far less articulate and my answer was going to be, I'm female and I've never felt feminine in my life. Nor have I felt masculine. I'm just... me. In my youth I've been described by others occasionally as feminine, or as a tomboy, but that's others perceptions and not how I see myself.

Could I choose to be treated as masculine when it comes to promotions, pay, distribution of workload, housework, who the school calls when the kids are ill, and the amount the NHS takes me seriously? I feel masculine energy in those areas.