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Original poster

To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

691 replies

Bloodyscarymary · 01/10/2025 21:46

Just watching the BBC Panorama doco “Undercover in the Police” and I can’t help feeling a bit uneasy.

Yes, the behaviour shown is awful and they should lose their jobs, but having their faces, names and secretly recorded conversations, sometimes even off duty over a pint broadcast feels like a bit of a violation of privacy.

I honestly would have thought secret filming like that couldn’t even be made public, but clearly it’s legal or the BBC wouldn’t air it.

I’m not excusing what was said at all. The culture clearly needs to change. But is it fair to single out these particular officers when the problem is obviously widespread?

I also felt some of the more junior officers had just absorbed the culture around them, and at times the journalist might have been nudging them into certain topics. A few of the comments even felt like dark humour or going along with pub chat. Still unacceptable, but if you secretly recorded doctors or other professions that probably use a lot of dark humour to get through it, I’m sure you’d hear things that would seem really callous to an outsider.

Absolutely they should be fired/reprimanded, but do they deserve complete public exposure like this? AIBU to feel uncomfortable about it?

YABU they deserve everything that’s coming their way

YANBU it’s too much personal exposure when the real problem is the Met culture not these individual cops

OP posts:
Lovethystupidneighbour · 02/10/2025 11:25

I hope the met are disbanded….
so you are all completely left to fend for yourselves.

The UKs attitude to the police is nothing short of narrow minded and quite frankly stupid.

Lets disband them and replace them all with complete robots who have the ability to throw themselves in the line of fire, be exposed to some of the most traumatic and horrific scenes you could imagine, but also at the same time be incredibly unaffected, empathetic and an all round graceful person!

At the same time, these employees must be completely loyal to each other, be prepared to have each others back in dangerous and volatile situation, BUT also rat on each other.

I don’t know any police officers who don’t have incredibly dark humour, much like I’ve never met a squaddie who wouldn’t say some things even id cringe at. I despair for this country with the general public so deeply stuck in their bubbles. Join the real world, it isn’t all magic and rainbows out here guys

lifeonmars100 · 02/10/2025 11:27

edwinbear · 01/10/2025 21:54

Really? Have you forgotten Sarah Everard? The Met Police have a rotten to the core culture and it seems they don’t really care and have done nothing to address it. If that’s been exposed (again) I’m all for it.

And let's not forget the horrific case of the Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman, the two sisters who were murdered and the officers who photograhed their dead bodies and shared the images in a WhatsApp group and referred to them as "dead birds" They were jailed for 33 months, their poor mother who had already been through the uttter hell of losing her girls in a random killing had to endure the knowledge that so called professionals had acted in this vile manner. Then there is David Carrick who violently raped multiple women and caused untold trauma and suffering. It seems that little has changed since these horrific cases and the culture of abuse runs very deep.

CleverTraybake · 02/10/2025 11:27

salcombebabe · 02/10/2025 10:37

Thought this was an interesting take on the programme: Taken from FB page UK Cop Humour's post

I am now an author, so please excuse the long winded reply, but I am so angry it needs to be said. Last night's BBC Panorama investigation into policing at Charing Cross station troubled me deeply, not because I condone poor policing, I despise it, but because the methods employed to obtain this footage raise serious questions about journalistic ethics and understanding of how human beings respond to extreme stress.
The practice of taking police officers out for drinks is hardly new. It has a name in journalism circles, the Alan Whicker, named after the BBC and ITV journalist who pioneered the technique. The strategy is simple and effective: lower someone's guard with alcohol and let them talk. It is an old interrogation method dressed up as casual socialising, and it has been used countless times before. What concerns me here is not just that it was used, but when and how it was deployed.
Having spent years dealing with violent situations in both military and police contexts, I recognise something crucial that appears to have been completely misunderstood or deliberately ignored by the programme makers. There is a phenomenon I call the comedown conversation. When someone has been in a situation where adrenaline is flooding their system, whether that is making an arrest, dealing with violent resistance, or any other high stress encounter, the body undergoes profound changes. Adrenaline is more powerful than cocaine. It transforms even the gentlest person into something primal. In that state, language changes, civility vanishes, and the carefully maintained professional guard drops away completely.
Police officers are trained to fight against these instincts when facing the public. They learn to maintain control, to use appropriate force, to remain professional even when their bodies are screaming at them to react differently. But when they return to their safe spaces, those private areas where they decompress with colleagues who understand what they have just experienced, something different happens. They vent. They use dark humour. They say things that would sound absolutely shocking to anyone outside that world. This is not unique to policing. It happens in emergency rooms, in military units, anywhere people regularly face traumatic situations.
In the military, we have recognised for years the critical importance of allowing personnel to decompress after traumatic incidents. What eventually became formalised as TRiM, Trauma Risk Management, grew from the understanding that people need protected spaces to come down from adrenaline highs through venting, and yes, sometimes that venting involves swearing and thoughts that would seem completely inappropriate in any other context. Without this release, serious mental health problems develop down the line. The BBC journalist approached officers during this vulnerable period, in their safe spaces, when they were decompressing, and I believe that was wholly wrong. They breached that space knowingly.
When I watched the footage of the detention in the cells, I saw nothing improper in the handling itself. The sergeant climbing onto the bunk to observe is standard practice. People who are drunk or experiencing mental health crises can require up to ten officers to restrain them safely. The observation was appropriate. However, the sergeant's comments about genitalia were crude, and here I place the blame squarely on management. He was not checked or warned by those around him. In fact, he seemed to be encouraged. I have seen this before in the military, insecure individuals with some authority holding court and going too far because they encounter no social friction, no pushback from their peers. Watching him, I actually felt sorry for him. He needed leadership to step in, and it did not happen.
What also struck me was the complete absence of balance regarding this officer. We saw nothing of him helping people at his desk, no context for the horrendous things he has to hear and deal with day after day. The editing presented only the worst moments with none of the ordinary humanity that surely exists alongside them.
The comment "she says", which was highlighted in the programme, is actually standard practice in custody suites. It was a reminder to staff to maintain impartiality when dealing with domestic incidents. Officers must guard against making assumptions based solely on one account, regardless of whether the complainant is male or female. Both men and women can be perpetrators and victims of domestic abuse, and officers are trained to investigate without bias. That was his crude way of reminding his team not to show fear or favour, to remain professional. It was inelegantly expressed, but the principle behind it was sound.
The conversations filmed outside the station were presented without any context. We saw none of the journalist's questions, no indication of whether they were open or closed, leading or neutral. We have no idea what happened in the first hour or more of that conversation, how the journalist deliberately steered the discussion to where they wanted it to go. The officers' comments about the volume of crime involving foreign nationals were shocking in their delivery, but they were stating something true, albeit in their own rough way. The question that needs asking is why those statistics exist, not whether officers are wrong to notice them.
Yet one glaring issue remains unaddressed. Charing Cross station has one of the most ethnically diverse workforces in the Metropolitan Police. Officers and staff from every background work there. But the programme was edited to show almost exclusively white male officers. This is what we call narrative editing. It creates an impression that may not reflect reality. It tells a particular story while ignoring evidence that might complicate that story.
This entire investigation was built on edited footage, the use of alcohol to loosen tongues, and filming of officers during their decompression time after adrenaline filled incidents. It focused exclusively on white male officers despite the diversity of the station. In doing so, it appears to have broken several laws including the Official Secrets Act provisions covering police stations, GDPR regulations on filming without consent, RIPA concerning covert surveillance, causing a nuisance inside a police station for the purposes of journalism, and potentially obtaining services by deception and fraud. This was not investigative journalism. This was a hatchet job, and I sincerely hope the Police Federation supports those officers whose lives and careers may now be destroyed by it.
I remain utterly opposed to poor policing. But I am equally opposed to journalism that uses questionable methods, strips away all context, and presents human beings at their most vulnerable as though those moments define their entire professional lives. We can demand better from our police without tolerating manipulative reporting that tells us only part of the story.

Ah, poor things were decompressing. That’s all right then

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 02/10/2025 11:30

CollsR · 02/10/2025 11:17

Culture is made up by people. These people saying these horrible things are reinforcing the culture. More of this should be done. Every year, every police unit should have such an investigation. You could secretly record at my work and at my after work functions and you would not get anything like this ever.

And what do you do for a job? Do you regularly have people screaming in your face, threatening to kill you and your family several times a shift ever had to stand guard over the splattered remains of a suicide victim every few shifts? Maybe you have had to come off your break to deal with someone off loading a life time of abuse. Maybe you get punched in the face at work occasionally? Maybe you are dealing day in day out with situations that change you psychologically? Or are you pressing keys on a keyboard all day?

Not saying that what these officers did was right but you need to accept your work environment and there’s is very different

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 02/10/2025 11:31

CleverTraybake · 02/10/2025 11:27

Ah, poor things were decompressing. That’s all right then

Show quote history

And what do you do for a job?

thepariscrimefiles · 02/10/2025 11:35

Lovethystupidneighbour · 02/10/2025 11:25

I hope the met are disbanded….
so you are all completely left to fend for yourselves.

The UKs attitude to the police is nothing short of narrow minded and quite frankly stupid.

Lets disband them and replace them all with complete robots who have the ability to throw themselves in the line of fire, be exposed to some of the most traumatic and horrific scenes you could imagine, but also at the same time be incredibly unaffected, empathetic and an all round graceful person!

At the same time, these employees must be completely loyal to each other, be prepared to have each others back in dangerous and volatile situation, BUT also rat on each other.

I don’t know any police officers who don’t have incredibly dark humour, much like I’ve never met a squaddie who wouldn’t say some things even id cringe at. I despair for this country with the general public so deeply stuck in their bubbles. Join the real world, it isn’t all magic and rainbows out here guys

So the only options are a police force with racist and misogynistic officers who use physica violence against the people they arrest or no police force at all?

HRTQueen · 02/10/2025 11:44

I sit in many meetings where humour is often use to diffuse the tension and lighten the mood (work forensic mh)

we are never racist, sexist, derogatory towards patients or staff

this is the teams I work in I am well aware this is not always the case. Any concerns would be raised because it reflects on peoples work (and I have reported an ex member of our team)

the dark humour excuse is just than an excuse

Paul2023 · 02/10/2025 11:45

Simplestars · 02/10/2025 09:54

It has exposed them.
This is good.
They should be held accountable.

They know this is wrong and yet still chose to behave in this abhorrent manner.

We don't need police officers like these so they can leave.

Also calling anyone toerag and scumbags is not professional nor acceptable either.

Show quote history

I’m not talking about racism or misogyny.

The police in a safe space( not around the public) have a right to talk to eachother.

Im sorry but calling people toe rags or scum bags in a pub or a work canteen isn’t that bad, would it be so bad if female or black officers referred to people like that?

Police deal with toe rags and scum bags. Why in a safe space can’t they use that language with eachother ? Very few people ever know what the police have to deal with.

Again I’m not talking about the unacceptable language and behaviour we saw , just an old
school copper referring to someone as a toe rag is hardly that bad is it ?

As someone who worked with prisoners, some were very nasty, rapists for example.
Does me referring to a rapist as a scum bag in a private work area ( only heard by colleagues) make it wrong ? It’s the real world.

My other point is this really should be have been broadcast , it should have been seen my the police.

This panorama documentary has now made it very difficult for the decent officers to do their jobs and put them in more danger from attack.

PurpleandWhite · 02/10/2025 11:46

@MyHeartyCoralSnailYou're saying that they’re traumatised etc and that’s why they’ve acted this way.

But the fact is they went beyond maybe gripping a detainee a bit harder than they should; or discussing immigration; or making a joke.

Basically everything shown in the documentary crossed a line and 12 people will now be reprimanded and possibly fired.

There were dozens of other officers who weren’t reprimanded or fired, and were shown briefly being compassionate in the role. There were others who were present but didn’t join in. So that tells us that they don’t have to behave like this

In the videos we saw, the detainees were not violent, so they would have to be taking their anger/trauma out on other people (if we accept they’re not just bullies)

Paul2023 · 02/10/2025 11:49

But know one really here thinks someone should lose their job for calling someone a toe rag or scum bag ( in a safe space can’t) so they ? A safe space such as work canteen.

If you think that then you genuinely have no idea what the police have to deal with.

Im not talking about racism or misogyny.

Bonden · 02/10/2025 11:59

@salcombebabebloody well
said.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 02/10/2025 12:15

Without being outing, I had a job working around people like this (not at all in the police! Just around people who talk like this)

Disgusting. The police are fucking terrifying.

Jellywife · 02/10/2025 12:20

Paul2023 · 02/10/2025 11:49

But know one really here thinks someone should lose their job for calling someone a toe rag or scum bag ( in a safe space can’t) so they ? A safe space such as work canteen.

If you think that then you genuinely have no idea what the police have to deal with.

Im not talking about racism or misogyny.

‘That man was a right toe rag’= ok

’Like all Islamics that man was a right toe rag’= not ok. Can you see the difference?

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 12:38

Which is why the clips should have been shown to higher ups and them be fired, but I don’t see the public benefit in identifying the individuals in question.

oh you sweet summer child.

The Met (most forces, iirc) have done several internal investigations and - nope they didn't see or hear anything, guv

If this is the only way to get them cleared out, root and branch? then i want their faces and names on billboards with examples of what they said. I want them out of the force, and i want them prosecuted properly.

We can't leave this to their corrupt and cowardly senior officers. Have you never heard of Cressida Dick, @Bloodyscarymary ?

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 12:41

VimtoIcePop · 01/10/2025 23:44

I think you're probably right but I also think my point stands.

I wasn't singling out Muslims btw. It was being discussed on another thread and seemed a relevant example. It's a very interesting dynamic because people are extremely wary of discussing the latter and you're much more likely to be called a racist than engaged with.

But the facts are there that 1200 sexual assaults were perpetrated in a single evening and there have been numerous smaller scale group assaults (plus many in the middle east where it's common).

I mean, the number of sexual assaults committed on that one night probably outnumbers sexual assaults perpetrated by Met officers in the last decade.

Show quote history

no. Muslims, unless they are police officers, are not paid to protect the public.

That is a whole other whataboutery and it is disgraceful that you brought it in here

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 12:44

3678194b · 02/10/2025 00:09

I have family and friends in the Police, admittedly not the Met, and they are nothing like those in the programme. Please don't tarnish the whole occupation to those standards.

The reporter has breached confidentiality for a start which he would have had to agree to as being an employee. Whilst none of them should have acted as they did and said what they should, I do feel the reporter incited them and was filming some of the after several drinks on a night out, and in parts even agreed with what they were saying. I wonder what Rory will do now?

The BBC can't preach, some of the biggest scandals and crimes have come from that very organisation themselves. There are, sadly, bad apples everywhere.

at this stage your relatives need to stand up and be counted. Because if they don't? they'Re complicit and deserve to be tarred with that very sticky and tarry brush (and i have been a woman in uniform in the 80s when "Bantz" was out of control, and i did complain, and so i know how hard it is)

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 13:00

Linenpickle · 02/10/2025 08:54

This was so bias as some of those people in custody could be repeat offenders. You don’t know that the man who got hit in the cell hasn’t been kicking off 4 times already and walloped police several times. You don’t know that the woman was a repeat customer. There are lots of gaps and the reporter is a a scumbag.

copper are you?

"the man who got hit in the cell" shouldn'T have been hit AT ALL, repeat offender or not.

The woman may have been a "repeat customer"???? A REPEAT CUSTOMER COMPLAINING OF DV?

Just listen to yourself. And if you are a police officer, do us all a favour and resign. Attitudes like this is why we have to have undercover reports.

a few pp accused the journalist of asking "leading questions" and comments. Well, the non-bad-apples should have taken him up on that, not agreed with him. No?

NessShaness · 02/10/2025 13:02

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 13:00

copper are you?

"the man who got hit in the cell" shouldn'T have been hit AT ALL, repeat offender or not.

The woman may have been a "repeat customer"???? A REPEAT CUSTOMER COMPLAINING OF DV?

Just listen to yourself. And if you are a police officer, do us all a favour and resign. Attitudes like this is why we have to have undercover reports.

a few pp accused the journalist of asking "leading questions" and comments. Well, the non-bad-apples should have taken him up on that, not agreed with him. No?

Show quote history

Exactly this 👏👏👏👏

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 13:07

godmum56 · 02/10/2025 10:42

nope.

Show quote history

thanks. What a load of waffle.

At this stage: if you are not standing up against this stuff, you are complicit. All of them need to go

WoodenBoat80 · 02/10/2025 13:08

@SirBasilrepeat customer… Wow! Have a word with yourself.

NessShaness · 02/10/2025 13:11

WoodenBoat80 · 02/10/2025 13:08

@SirBasilrepeat customer… Wow! Have a word with yourself.

It wasn’t @SirBasil that said that, they were responding to another poster.

SirBasil · 02/10/2025 13:11

i was quoting someone, @WoodenBoat80 .

I was in uniform with men with PTSD, and believe me when i complained to my bosses about the bantz it got a WHOLE lot worse before it got even incrementally better. So i can hold my head up high.

Unlike any officers who see/hear this stuff and just go about their day.

Pigeonenglish · 02/10/2025 13:13

Bonden · 02/10/2025 11:59

@salcombebabebloody well
said.

Yes. I agree with that as well.

Whatafustercluck · 02/10/2025 13:13

Linenpickle · 02/10/2025 08:52

The government annoy me as on the radio a minister was saying that better vetting was needed. What an arse as they need better training. The training and standards have been reduced and dumbed down massively so what do you expect to get in return. You don’t need a degree to be police officer, just like poor nurses don’t need a degree but to return to ‘good old fashioned’ training.

The minister is right, as many within policing would agree with. You can't 'train' prejudice out of someone, no matter how good the training is. The fault lies entirely within the recruitment process.

Solaire18381 · 02/10/2025 13:13

In many cases its groups of men in power in general.

I know of men in power, medical consultants in the NHS for example, who have been fired and struck off for inappropriate touching of "staff beneath them" and worse. Yes, cases where I've actually known these abusers in person and other cases where I've only known of who they are. These doctors, compared to the programme shown last night, were worse. Maybe reporters should go undercover working in hospitals.