To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

[Bloodyscarymary]

Just watching the BBC Panorama doco “Undercover in the Police” and I can’t help feeling a bit uneasy.

Yes, the behaviour shown is awful and they should lose their jobs, but having their faces, names and secretly recorded conversations, sometimes even off duty over a pint broadcast feels like a bit of a violation of privacy.

I honestly would have thought secret filming like that couldn’t even be made public, but clearly it’s legal or the BBC wouldn’t air it.

I’m not excusing what was said at all. The culture clearly needs to change. But is it fair to single out these particular officers when the problem is obviously widespread?

I also felt some of the more junior officers had just absorbed the culture around them, and at times the journalist might have been nudging them into certain topics. A few of the comments even felt like dark humour or going along with pub chat. Still unacceptable, but if you secretly recorded doctors or other professions that probably use a lot of dark humour to get through it, I’m sure you’d hear things that would seem really callous to an outsider.

Absolutely they should be fired/reprimanded, but do they deserve complete public exposure like this? AIBU to feel uncomfortable about it?

YABU they deserve everything that’s coming their way

YANBU it’s too much personal exposure when the real problem is the Met culture not these individual cops

I work in a similar field. I have never heard such language used to describe those who access our service. These are people convicted of offences that are reviled in society.
If they have such hatred and preconceived ideas about groups of people, it will reflect in how they treat the public.
If law enforcement have gotten to the stage that they have these views and can say it out loud, they need to realise that its time to leave

Nonsense. As all cutizens and guests in the country should be treated equally its very clear why some remarks disparaging the citizen for their ethnicity, race, religion, gender or gender presentation should be disallowed. Because all the public are the police’s employers. Not just white people or british born people or people you approve of.

Well said @pikkumyy77

No sympathy. Hell slap it up then. The problem with a lot of police is that they think they are invincible.

I do this, I was a councillor and knew that people scrutinised everything you do at any moment. Anyone in a position of trust would presumably understand that anything said or done anywhere remotely public could be repeated

I've been watching bodycam videos on YouTube posted by the American police. The number of psycho people they have to deal with is eye opening.

The police in the US are strongly opposed to body cams and frequently turn them iff precisely because they can be used to reveal police misconduct—they are often ordered by judges or local authorities during settlements of major police misconduct and abuse of power cases such as when the police break in and shoot the wrong person or choke someone to death in public for minor civil offenses.

Needless to say—though it seems to need saying here—youtube uploads of random police/civilian interactions are both illegal infringement on civilian privacy (like two police who shared photos of the dead girls in the UK) and not definitively and factually actual real footage of real interactions. They are just as likely to be fake—copaganda its called.

I worked as a therapist for homeless psychotic people—the “dregs” of society you would call them. They didn’t lose their right to privacy and respect because they were mentally ill in public and I didn’t need a man with a gun backing me up with them either.

expose them!

You’re missing my point. I’m saying that the police face abuse from elements of the public,

Care home staff ( when there’s been documentaries about care staff mistreating residents) don’t have to contend with the public.

You’re missing my point. I’m saying that the police face abuse from elements of the public, even more so when they get bad publicity.

Care home staff ( when there’s been documentaries about care staff mistreating residents) don’t have to contend with the public.

Frankly, given the footage is presumably the worst the bbc gathered over 7 months, I was amazed how tame it generally was. Most of the comments fell more in the bucket of foolish banter and I was not convinced it was in the public interest to broadcast much of it, given the intrusion of privacy inherent in how it was obtained.

@Janesmom I couldn't give a toss about intrusion of privacy-the police are doing that to members of the public on a daily basis-stop and search, house raids, taking peoples' devices etc. aren't there also several cop shows that broadcast all that type of stuff? So I think it's fine to do the same to them. Hell will freeze over before I feel sorry for them!

My husband is a serving police officer, and has previously worked in the Met. We watched the documentary together and he was horrified at the comments made. The custody sergeant in particular was shocking. Not just the rushing down to 'help' when the woman in skimpy clothes was brought in, not just the comments made about the DV victim, but also the way he spoke about sex in front of others - I felt it was a form of control, particularly as he was saying these things in front of female officers.

My DH said that him being an authority figure ie a sergeant and saying these things in front of any officer would put colleagues in a really difficult position as they are duty bound to report him but if he is senior to them it is very hard to do, particularly if you are new to the role etc. But if you don't, it makes you complicit in the culture that he is normalising in that station.

It was a very difficult watch. I know seeing something like that is shocking but I also know of my own partner's professionalism in a difficult role. 'Not all police officers' may now feel hard to believe but most officers wouldn't condone that behaviour, and do conduct themselves as they should in the role they do.

Thankful for police like your hubby!
They need to have a system where reporting bad behaviour is acceptable and the whistleblower protected. I guess hard to do with some of the senior staff being part of the problem...

In other words—and with great respect for your dh—it needs people outside the system like the BBC or ordinary citizens to take up the cudgels and fight for proper, professional, treatment.

Disgusting, vile behaviour. God help us!
The sergeant was particularly vile. How someone didn't kick him in the balls is beyond me! And the way he went to see the young woman who was drunk and disorderly ( when he actually didn't need to as it wasn't his job) made my skin crawl! He was practically drooling! Thought he was God's gift and clearly above the law.
The way the 17 year old autistic boy was restrained was awful. 8 officers!! When all he did was throw a pillow at them. Dreadful.

Between the ages of 17 and 23, with a small gap of about a year, I was subjected to 'dirty phonecalls' by someone we found out was a member of the RUC. Bear in mind this was before mobile phones. He would use telephone boxes and only by our own detective work and help from my cousin who was in the force were we able to find out who it was. I remember vividly being told by a senior police WOMAN that if he was prosecuted, he 'could lose his job'. That was almost 30 years ago and I have never forgotten it. Could I have cared less if he lost his job? No. I have zero time for most of the police because I know for a fact that so many of them think they are above the law.

Back in local press days in Brighton in my early 20's, colleague and I were covering an animal rights protest. Cops told us all, press included not to step off the pavement. My colleague put one foot on the road to take a photo down the line of people, was arrested. Not just arrested but roughed up too and his camera smashed.

The police and CPS took it all the way to court, denying the rough treatment, saying that he was aggressive. There was footage of the rough treatment which the police 'lost'. About a month before the court date a protester got in touch with the paper with more footage that she'd taken of the police manhandling of the photographer and my friend not fighting back at all with the arrest. The case was then dropped. This was an eye opener for me and ever since while I will treat a decent copper with the utmost respect, I don't trust any of them. The stress that caused my colleague was unreal.

Police HAVE to act within the law and they should all be fair, impartial and follow the very law they represent.

That is insane... so sorry. Did you ever find out why?

I would say "stupidity" rather than ignorance. Ignorance implies that once you know better, you do better.

I have known police who don't trust the police.

The misogyny and racism shown was absolutely abhorrent, so far from 'foolish banter.' The physical abuse and use of force on people in their care, often vulnerable people. The way minorities and women were spoken about, creating a culture or fear and control, knowing their rank would protect them. Awful.

Police Officers are expected to protect and treat people equally with attitudes and behaviours such as those shown in the program they have shown they cannot be trusted to do that, and as such should be exposed for their failings.

That last line is important.

At the moment they do not HAVE to act within the law. Having a criminal record doesn't stop you being in the police.

They should have to act within the law when dealing with the general public, no?

And shocking, having a criminal record, I did not know! But would argue two different issues.

So, just brush the dangerous and abhorrent behaviour of presumably a minority of officers, all under the carpet to protect the force from the public?
This type of view will be welcomed by these rogue officers who likely feel that it will all blow over and they can go back to business as usual.
The Met chief needs to do more to root them out.

In response to Paul2023