To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

[Bloodyscarymary]

Just watching the BBC Panorama doco “Undercover in the Police” and I can’t help feeling a bit uneasy.

Yes, the behaviour shown is awful and they should lose their jobs, but having their faces, names and secretly recorded conversations, sometimes even off duty over a pint broadcast feels like a bit of a violation of privacy.

I honestly would have thought secret filming like that couldn’t even be made public, but clearly it’s legal or the BBC wouldn’t air it.

I’m not excusing what was said at all. The culture clearly needs to change. But is it fair to single out these particular officers when the problem is obviously widespread?

I also felt some of the more junior officers had just absorbed the culture around them, and at times the journalist might have been nudging them into certain topics. A few of the comments even felt like dark humour or going along with pub chat. Still unacceptable, but if you secretly recorded doctors or other professions that probably use a lot of dark humour to get through it, I’m sure you’d hear things that would seem really callous to an outsider.

Absolutely they should be fired/reprimanded, but do they deserve complete public exposure like this? AIBU to feel uncomfortable about it?

YABU they deserve everything that’s coming their way

YANBU it’s too much personal exposure when the real problem is the Met culture not these individual cops

Give it a month, see if the greater public even remembers what those individuals look like, let alone their names. Then in a month see if the lasting legacy of this programme is if the MET police are in a bad way or not.

Nobody will remember these officers nor care, the whole argument about naming and shaming is moot.

Same here.
I fled DV and had to deal with Met police. “Or so she says” comment from that pig about pregnant woman enraged me.
I wonder whether OP would feel sorry for them if she herself was in a vulnerable position on a receiving end of their misogynistic/racist/xenophobic etc behaviour

OP give your head a wobble

The government annoy me as on the radio a minister was saying that better vetting was needed. What an arse as they need better training. The training and standards have been reduced and dumbed down massively so what do you expect to get in return. You don’t need a degree to be police officer, just like poor nurses don’t need a degree but to return to ‘good old fashioned’ training.

This was so bias as some of those people in custody could be repeat offenders. You don’t know that the man who got hit in the cell hasn’t been kicking off 4 times already and walloped police several times. You don’t know that the woman was a repeat customer. There are lots of gaps and the reporter is a a scumbag.

They're normalising it between themselves, even if off duty. What we should never forget is this is wholly unacceptable, end of.

I really hope that the decent police, if they ever come across this kind of behaviour that they report it rather than turn a blind eye for fear of being ostracised or dismissing it as 'bants'.

Having worked in a very male dominated industry in the 80s, where 1 in perhaps 500 were female, I can assure you I never heard anything even mildly derogatory said about us then. We were treated with respect. No reason the police cannot do the same in this day and age.

“it’s too much personal exposure when the real problem is the Met culture not these individual cops”
Well it’s both. The problem is people who talk and act in misogynistic, racist, violent and dishonest ways in a position of real power. That’s them. The fact that it’s others too doesn’t mean it’s not them.

Always the excuse about 'one bad apple' and that was Cressida Dick when Sara Everard was murdered by known pervert/PC Wayne Couzens. its a culture thats been allowed to continue. i daresay its a hard job and you'll see the worst of everyone but thats no excuse

This, 100 per cent. there were so many red flags shown up in the Sarah Everard case. Lessons have to be learnt and action points from the enquiry forced to be implemented.

yes! it totally would be fair. I worked in the NHS which is well known for its "dark humour to be able to cope" ethos and I would never have expected to hear or to tolerate equivalent comments from any of my staff, drunk or sober. I do understand how difficult it might be for junior staff to whistleblow but that needs to be addressing too.

@Whatafustercluck incredibly balanced post and accurate too - the problem is partly as you say - it’s outside influences too - ok to be a bit of a Tommy Robinson/Andrew Tate and say such stuff as if it’s a joke or having a Laarrrf !

I hope there's some actual sackings rather than just moving them to a different department! That Mclvenny bloke is horrible, as a woman I know how unpleasant it can be working with a bloke that's always pervy and sexual assault I've been there in the past! At least women have seen his face for when he's trawling online but it's a shame the footage belittles a lady he had a night with.

still no excuse.

I always wonder how they always secure jobs for undercover reporters! The jobs market is tough but somehow they can always make sure a journalist gets your job.

Absolutely this. I'm refusing to believe you're serious, OP. Please say you're winding us up.

No I don't feel sorry for them at all.
They have racist and misogynist views and should not be police officers.
If the filming had not been made public nothing would have happened, hopefully now it will

The thing is who would be attracted to work in the met? The pay isn’t amazing for London. You have to deal with people spitting in your face, attacking you, goading you. It’s going to attract either people who are motivated to help others or alternatively those who like a fight/ like the power. I can’t imagine anyone else would be very interested.

I’m not excusing them but I can see how this culture is hard to change.

If anything, shows failings in the Met's department yet again, their vetting process is full of holes.

After watching beyond the first 5 seconds…. YABU.

I can understand maybe giving the benefit of the doubt to people making inappropriate/offensive/creepy comments (although some of the things they said were honestly more messed up than I anticipated).

But come on, after seeing them be violent and targeting people? Absolute vile people, those officers.

So glad they’re being named and shamed.

If you’ve ever had a family member or friend be taken into police custody, whether due to crime or mental illness, you’d be horrified. The guy who stuffed things down the toilet and urinated etc. struck me as someone who might be mentally ill/psychotic. Really awful stuff.

The point about naming and shaming (from the OP) is twofold. First, a few culprits are singled out for naming and shaming while hundreds of others are left untouched. Second, it initiates a 'bad apple' response, which sidelines the actual problem of a 'rotten barrel'. These points are not moot.

They acknowledged that they also saw a lot of good professional police work too and they showed a bit.. But the programme wasn't about them so of course they wouldn't feature.

Well if someone is mentally ill and psychotic he should be in a mental hospital -these are police not doctors.
and if 7months of digging and spying only brought up that (apart from idiot macilvenney) that’s not so bad. There was a lack of leadership -someone should have broken up 3 oldies sergeant’s on together - funny no policewomen -looks like they were giving Charing X a miss

And yet the OP didn't want them named and shamed because thought was unfair, when having bants in a pub ands should be private?