Labour are lifting the 2 child benefit cap

[PuppyKeep]

AIBU that this is a terrible decision?

I also dislike the general entitlement, but if you think pensions should be means tested, then surely the same should apply to child benefits of any kind. People don't have any control over getting older, but they do have control over the number of children they have.

Yes, always the blame on the "feckless" mothers. Somehow producing kids all by themselves.

politics aside - you’ll struggle to persuade me - there is no evidence of this
Birthrates have been declining for decades - even when benefits were more generous the birth rate was declining.

Is anyone else finding the language around "keeping children in poverty" a bit glib? Children are not poor or rich, they don't have money. It's their parents we're talking about. It's about neglecting children, or not neglecting them. And it's not directly correlated with how much money their parents have.

Children were in poverty before the cap, they will be poverty after the cap. It is not as easy as just giving families more money. Education/social factors have a massive impact.

I’m a middle income earner and yes, I would pay more tax for better services, and would also very much like to see the super rich and corporations shouldering their fair share better too.

I think there has to be an acceptance sooner or later that we need to share resources better, or society will collapse. We’re living through the inevitable outcome of late stage capitalism and the status quo is going to have to change- and that’s going to have to include looking after the vulnerable better, and taxing the rich more, or we’ll end up in a world where none of us- except the super rich- thrive or even really survive.

I'm pretty sure that most of us agree that more needs to be done to get fathers to pay for their kids rather than the state.

It’s not that people want children to be in poverty. It’s that you need to put the responsibility for that where it actually lies - on the parents who chose to have the child. No one else is responsible for the decision to bring the child into the world. And people rightly resent subsidising the poor life choices others make. It’s just not on to create a problem and then foist it onto others to sort out for you.

Two things can be true at once.

That amount of money can lift people out of poverty BUT it’s not the same as having an easy life.

Go for it. Nothing stops you paying more to the government. Of the people who say they are happy to - very few people seem do in practice. It's just virtual signalling.

Great to see so many Reform-ists, with economics PhDs, who believe themselves immune from redundancy, bereavement, relationship breakdown and any other life events that might lead them to need state support, on the one thread.

I have friends who claim for their kids having ADHD. They get a surprising amount which they do not have to spend in any particular way. They use it for holidays and days out. That money is not spent Directly benefitting their children. ADHD payments have risen by 41,000% in the Last Few years. Meanwhile these kids have insufficient support at school and disrupt the entire class. It's just another example of madness which we can not afford whist failing kids at school.
Many people who make irresponsible decisions re the amount of kids that they have, cannot be trusted to spend that money wisely. Also , how many hard working responsible women actually fall pregnant accidentally? That has not happened to any of my friends nor myself.
Unless Labour does something serious about cutting the welfare bill in order to pay for the NHS etc, I will not vote for them. Not that I would vote for reform. I would have to vote Green I think.

As someone who has worked in child protection for two decades and seen the impact of the abhorrent Tory policy of the benefit cap and also austerity in general, then this would be very welcome. Those who think it just acts as a green light for 'the feckless' are ill informed and show little insight into the impact that these policies have had on the most vulnerable in our society but also the nation as a whole.

It was all ways incredibly short sighted and many studies have shown that austerity politics did more harm than good. There are also many arguments that this ultimately led to the Brexit vote. People were feeling worse off due to the fall in public services and living standards. Then clear run for the opportunistic politicians sweeping in and promising the land of milk and honey if we left the biggest free trading block in the world. That turned out well (sarcasm for the hard of thinking who fell for it).

As one of the richest nations in the world, there is absolutely no reason for children to be living in the level of poverty many do in the UK. Services to support these families (most importantly Surestart) were slashed, as was education, health care, social care etc (and council budgets- councils have a legal duty to provide social care). At the same time Tories brought in privitisation via the back door. Providing care for a Looked after Child is so profitable now there is a huge level of investment from Emirate states. If councils did not have to pay £10 000 a week for a teenage placement then there would be huge savings right there and no one should be making profits from these children .

Any country that does not invest in the future when there are the funds and also the means is doomed. The outcry any time benefits to the elderly are suggested are not sustainable,considering they are the biggest cost to our welfare system, just shows how things are skewed. I absolutely agree that there are lots of elderly people who need support- but there are also millions of young people who would benefit from a free bus pass to get to work/college, and are expected to live on far less without top ups.

The Tory government managed to waste billions giving contracts to their mates (Michelle Mone for example) but no outrage there. Same with utilities which have been sold off to foriegn companies and now our rivers are full of crap and energy prices are astronomical (other countries in Europe have managed to cap this). At the same time their investors and CEOs make huge profits. It says a lot about many people in this country that they accept these things yet villify the poorest. The right wing press (which is most of our media) have done their work. Anyone objecting to the narritive that all this shit is down to immigrants and benefit scroungers must be a left wing, lentil weaver. They have even weaponised the term woke. God forgive children could be lifted out of poverty as was happening prior to David Cameron coming into power.

The state pension is a benefit.

The idea that you have "paid in" to your state pension via NI contributions is a common misconception. You have not saved up towards your pension - that money was just put into the general tax bucket. Pensions are paid through the NI contributions of CURRENT working people. So state pension is not a special category - it's another thing being paid for by today's taxpayers, along with other forms of welfare payments. In each case, the tax payer is looking after a more vulnerable group in society. There is no difference.

We got tax credit a couple of years ago when I was between graduating from my degree (First Class - just in case you also think everyone on benefits is thick) and starting a job. And the delay was due to COVID, so again, just context so that you didn't think I was just being a lazy fucker for not immediately getting a job.

I spent the tax credit on our mortgage and bills so, you know, my kids would have a home and food to eat. But yeah - you just keep assuming that everyone on benefits just spends it all on shits and giggles for themselves 🙄

Quite. Many (not all I get it circumstances change) children are in poverty because that is the life their parents choose to give them. The state then has to work to try and give those children a better start, which is fair since it wasn't the children choice either - but it wasn't the state forcing the parents to have children.

Why would they? Many working parents earning too much for free school meals but struggle to afford the meals. I am glad this is being changed.

Reform are pro the benefit. As Labour is.

Exactly. I only had 2 because it’s all we can afford to give a good life. I had my tubes out when we were done having the children we can afford.

They are in another world aren’t they.

Yes, its true that the birth rate was low even when benefits were better (although it does improve in times of economic growth and prosperity).

Even our more generous benefits in, say, the late 90s were not enough to get us to the replacement rate - because society values "good" careers and the lifestyle rewards they bring.

Having kids has, for decades now, been (at best) huge financial/lifestyle handicap. In economically difficult times, it goes beyond a handicap into completey unaffordable.

Of course it’s a stupid decision.

Where is the money coming from? Who is going to pay for it? Not the people who will Benefit from it, that is for sure.

Typical Labour bullshit.

Because it just layers hand out on to hand out. Here some money so you can afford to feed your children, oh but don't worry the state will feed your children as well. This non-sense needs to stop at some point and people need to feed their own children. Feeding your kids is parenting 101.

I know a family with a lot of kids. Some of the kids have a genetic condition as does the dad. They kept having more kids despite this. No-one in the household works & they get PIP (dad) & DLA (kids). It’s very strange & difficult to not think they keep having kids for the extra money. Might gbe unpalatable but some people do.

That's a very stupid argument.

I'm a high-earner and would absolutely be prepared to pay more in tax (I vote "against my own interests") but just having me (and a few like-minded others) voluntary donate money to the government won't make a lick of difference if the vast majority of high earners dont do the same.