To think putting vat on private healthcare when many people use it because the NHS won't treat them is monstrously cruel

[DervlaGlass]

I know so many people who have had to pay for cancer diagnostics or new joints because they couldn't obtain care from the NHS. Not rich people - people who have to take out bank loans to fund it.

What is wrong with labour.

😂

🤣🤣 sorry yes forgot!

I am struggling to get past this. THIS is exactly why private education should be taxed. It produces entitled elites who think they should and indeed do get access to most of the powerful jobs in this country. Politicians, judges, barristers, journalists are all overwhelmingly privately educated. They dominate the professions not because they are good at what they do but because a private education buys connections and networks that will advance and protect them all their lives. Wake up!!

Exactly! My DD is severely dyslexic and in the words of a state school teacher would fall through the gaps in a class of 34 never to reach her potential. She is in an independent school with excellent SEND provision and is able to access education. We are making huge sacrifices to pay for this to try and set her up for the future. How anyone can think that should be taxed is beyond me.

The only reason that Labour aren’t doing this currently is because it will add pressure on the NHS. Private healthcare is eyewateringly expensive, this would push people to stop it. Many employers offer it too and it would be another increase if 20% for them on top of the NI increase. I have no doubt that they would do it if they could. Additionally the NHS has/is using private healthcare to get waiting lists down so they will be also increasing their costs here.

Healthcare is very different to private school fees (which I didn’t agree to BTW) because it doesn’t directly affect and disrupt our children.

I have no doubt they would do this if they could.

What has it got to do with Labour OP? VAT has been paid on all private treatment for decades.

Then you'd be one of the winners! Think of it as getting a benefit for not having pets.

One less tax for you to pay then. Winning.

Speak for yourself of course people go to university for an education that offers a depth of understanding and critical thinking that cannot be replicated easily outside of those institutions. You may see no value in an educated society but the economy doesn't.

You don't on proper medical treatments. Cosmetic treatments yes.

I do but I'm using your excuses for the education tax and extrapolating it to university.
How is it acceptable to tax the education of children + SEND but not tax the education of adults??

I really value education but you can't have it both ways! It's precisely because I value all education that I oppose the taxation of any of it.

You are the one supporting the removal of the world premise that education is a merit good, no matter how pr where it is delivered. That's the reason why there was previously no education tax.

Yes and it will see even more value if these students paid VAT.

No, while children do not vote their parents do. The electoral calculus for Labour was in favour of taxing private education and heavily against taxing higher education.

I don't know what the stats are, what are they? Even if we do, I disagree that's bad for society.

Labour were the ones who saw education as an opportunity to raise money (cough cough). Why stop at independent schools? Raise more money by taxing all education. Now you've removed the "merit good" principle.

Who can afford mainstream private? Not many. My kids’s school is £22k. It takes up half of my salary. But it’s still cheaper than giving up work to home educate as that was the only other option. VAT on schools for SEN kids is just the same as VAT on healthcare. The public is funding to get around the unacceptably poor state run service. It would be fine if all of those with SEN needs were exempt from VAT on self funded school fees, but they’re not..

But it would mean even more people who are on the lowest incomes, I don't think wealth inequality being stretched even wider would help society.

I think we should go further and have a tax for those privileged enough to afford to send their DC to the best state schools.
If you can afford a £2M house in best catchments then you can afford a 2K tax per year. To fund state schools in deprived areas.

Quite. To be clear I'm not pro vat on university, I am pro tax on dogs but I think that is unlikely to happen as people are weird about dogs. But I think it is bizare to treat one version of fee paying education different to another fee paying education. Either you think education should be taxed or you don't.

Why? Education Tax is making independent schools MORE elitist and widening the inequality gap. Isn't that why you support it?

Considering that students make up a substantial proportion of the Labour base of course they wouldn’t do it. It would be like the Tories slapping tax rises on private schools and red corduroy trousers.

To think putting vat on private healthcare when many people use it because the NHS won't treat them is monstrously cruel

I've not heard anyone say this other than you.

We might be better off discussing what Reform might do with the NHS and how treatment might be given and how this would affect the person in the street, their children and parents.

Nigel Farage HAS mentioned changes and implied an having insurance based system like the US.

He said it would still be free at the point of delivery but does not want the NHS funded through general taxation.

My parents have had new joints. Some privately some on the NHS. Private because they paid into BUPA. Once in their 80s the rates shot up. So the differences.....
Private - carpet in a single room, cups of tea for visitors. Quieter hospital. Probably better meals.
NHS - in a ward, but there is company. Nurses a bit more rushed. No biscuits or carpet.

In terms of knees, healing etc etc no significant difference.

My Mum probably got her first, private, knee a little sooner and on a date to suit her.

Of course they won't. It is amazing how quickly posters get their knickers in a twist when a tax proposal could affect them or their kids. Labour can only cope with spending other peoples money.

I know they did, your point being? I didn't know I was describing your "merit good" principle. There is an alternative for private school I suppose that is why.

Exactly. It fundamentally cones down to "do you think education is a public good"? Which is why education was previously zero rated, because the principle across Europe was that it is.
Labour don't follow that principle so in the aspect of fairness and equality that principle should be removed across the board. Otherwise it's not fair is it, it's just targeting 1 small group of children based on the type of school they go to.