To think putting vat on private healthcare when many people use it because the NHS won't treat them is monstrously cruel

[DervlaGlass]

I know so many people who have had to pay for cancer diagnostics or new joints because they couldn't obtain care from the NHS. Not rich people - people who have to take out bank loans to fund it.

What is wrong with labour.

Yep, it's about as fair as doing it for private schools (i.e. It isn't).

VAT should cover any form of educational luxury, from university fees to vocational courses. It should also apply to private education services like tutoring, online schools, and any paid educational resources.

Imported food, being a luxury, deserves appropriate taxation.

The same principle applies to imported goods, as they are considered luxuries and should fall under VAT.

All imported items should face significant taxes.

The list feels endless.

By adding VAT and possibly other taxes to everything, the Labour government will achieve the revenue they aim for.

There are far too many "free" things in this country. It's time to end it all.

Anything considered a luxury should face significant taxation, ensuring the Labour government secures the funds it requires. But who gets to decide what counts as a luxury? Predictably, Labour supporters will, and it’ll be intriguing to see how far they go in exempting themselves from the taxes they propose on the luxuries they indulge in.

Apologies - I’ve not read the whole thread but Wes Streeting categorically said that they will NOT be charging VAT on private healthcare on this mornings BBC Breakfast, so no need to panic.

It was probably the thinking and sheep part which is a bit eye rolly in any language.

Bayrou was pretty good at pointing out the reality of the situation. Although it didn’t help him either.

I don't know Eastern, it was also the reflex cringe that a poster decided to write in French just to make a point about France. And the sheep thing second. 😂

Would the tax ‘incentives’ to use private education and healthcare just be for those who currently use the public service but switch to private or would they just be tax cuts for those who already use private healthcare and educate their children privately because it is already affordable?

Because the latter is just a variant of trickle down economics. There is no evidence to support the notion that increasing the disposable income of the already wealthy by decreasing their tax burden has any beneficial impact on those who can’t afford private services and rely on state provision.

Whilst it is true that some who never used private services when state services were better resourced have found the means if possible to access private services, the vast majority of those using private services have always done so and can afford to do so in addition to owning expensive assets and living a luxury lifestyle (whilst paying taxes they can’t legally avoid).

For example, the policy of increasing the threshold at which tax starts being paid has a marginal impact on the poorest but the greatest impact is on the richest. But the benefits to the poorest are touted as the reason for the policy, not the far greater benefits to the richest.

If you are already rich, fill your boots, it makes economic sense to vote for those who will make you even richer (as long as they don’t scare the horses). But if you are not and rely on taxation to fund public services that you use or may use, you might want to vote in line with your own economic interests and not those of populist millionaires who dominate the messages the media pump out daily.

So the vast majority of our basic food provisions should be taxed heavily? Things like tomatoes and carrots and most fruit? How are people supposed to eat a healthy diet (given that most fresh and non-upf food in the UK is imported!).

"💥 EU VAT Rates Table 2025: Complete by-Country Guide 2025 ?" https://www.eurofiscalis.com/en/vat-rates-in-ue/

A lot of countries in Europe have higher standard VAT rates than us. Hungary 27% . To raise it would be the fastest way for Reeves to raise the monies she requires.

Well maybe they shouldn't also be threatening our food security by taxing farms out of existence. Over 6000 have closed in last 12 months, highest number since ONS started publishing data in 2017.

And who pays the most currently for all the state services?
Nearly half of people in the UK pay no income tax at all.

Meanwhile:

↳The wealthiest 0.1% cover around 1 in every 10 pounds collected.

↳The top 1% fund nearly a third of all income tax.

↳The top 10% contribute well over two thirds of the total.

To put it in perspective:

↳Someone earning £150,000 parts with more than £53,000 in tax.

↳Someone on £25,000 pays under £2,500.

The person on 25K will then take more in terms of education, healthcare, universal credit etc. That's fine BUT don't then blame the actual people who are paying to fund these services.

Well I wouldn't put it on food, home grown or imported. That's a need. But white goods, TVs, technology, cars. That's a want.

Nine years ago we bought a new flat screen TV a big one. Last month it blew up. Husband dug out the old one from under the stairs. We went from a 50 inch tv back o a 32 inch. Weirdly it's much easier to read the picture is much sharper.

Our last washing machine, bought on marketplace.

We've forgotten how to buy second hand.

Link to 6000 closed farms please

To be fair, I wonder how much of the support came from families with kids with SEND. Especially those children for whom there is no suitable state provision.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/record-farm-closures-amid-iht-reforms-and-rising-costs

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/labours-disastrous-tax-policies-closes-more-than-6000-farms/

No, it's a complete strawman. People who a year ago were assuring everyone that VAT on private schools would never happen, and then 9 months ago were assuring everyone that VAT on private schools was unlawful and would be overturned in the courts by February half term, are now assuring everyone that Labour is about to start charging VAT on higher education, medical insurance and food.

It's a classic FUD tactic.

I don’t support VAT on either.

Thing is though, having put VAT on the education of autistic kids like my ds, and had not many people stand up to say that’s not fair, I’m actually inclined to say, well - nobody stood up for me, so crack on and VAT whatever you like and I won’t stand up for anyone. Just like they didn’t stand up for me.

Er court clearly said it was discriminatory and breached HR under the 2 Articles it was brought under. So yes, in that sense it is unlawful

Yes!

But what about people who can’t access loans and finances to go private? My mum had a test come back 350 when the result was anything over 250 needed immediate intervention but with the nhs lists my mum decided to pay private - despite no other symptoms other than the test.

i had the same test due to blood in my stools, major stomach pain and not being able to eat without agony. My same test came back as almost 2000. I’m stuck on the waiting list not knowing if it’s cancer or if it’s anything else to enable me a decent quality of life.

people who go private have access to those finances so they can pay everything it entails. Yes there should be more of a fees able middle ground but it’s disgusting that unless you have money you’re left on the waiting list with health problems that could be killing you but not getting that treatment

Exactly.
BBC News - Streeting rules out VAT on private healthcare - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0knr2dmn4mo

@twistyizzy no blame mentioned in my post. If you earn 150k your economic interests are different from someone who earns 25k.

Tax cuts that favour the well paid reduce funding for services available for the lower paid and do nothing to decrease the burden on public services that the well paid don’t use like education and healthcare.

They also do nothing to reduce state funding of in work benefits to top up low wages in order to afford high cost of living and housing.

I object to the reframing of private education and private healthcare concerns of increasing costs due to the application of VAT as primarily concerns of parents with DC with SEN or patients who were failed by the state system as they are the minority of users who are over represented for political or economic gain by the majority of wealthy users of private education and healthcare.

This is not to say that the public service is adequate. It is not. Navigating the system is complex, can be expensive and is definitely stressful. I had 2 DC with severe SEN needs and was forced to go to tribunal to get both of their needs met. My DM was finally awarded CHC when end of life care had already been initiated. In all of these cases funding of appropriate education and healthcare was an issue but money was thrown away on blocking access.

The public sector needs to act holistically rather than allocating spending to different pots in order to recognise that early intervention is cost effective. Eg the education department saves Y but then the LA picks up 100 x Y for ECHP, tribunal and indi SS and then the DWP picks up 1000 x Y if the young person ends up on ESA/UC indefinitely and a parent also becomes economically inactive to be their carer.

We have gone well beyond simplistic tax cuts for the rich having any hope of solving complex social issues.

That must be awful. But the solution surely isn't to make private more expensive and make the lists for the NHS even longer. The reform policy of a tax subsidy would probably encourage some on the list to go private, shortening the list for everyone else.

If you do read the thread you will find all the others things ministers have said won't happen then they did a short while after. We all know tax hikes are coming until the government figure out where we will have to just guess.

Except it was the people who were saying labour wouldn't introduce a tax on education who now not sure that labour won't introduce a tax on health.

And you believe drippy boy Streeting? Just because he’s said it won’t happen, isn’t worth anything.

There are lies, damned lies and Labour Politicians.