To think putting vat on private healthcare when many people use it because the NHS won't treat them is monstrously cruel

[DervlaGlass]

I know so many people who have had to pay for cancer diagnostics or new joints because they couldn't obtain care from the NHS. Not rich people - people who have to take out bank loans to fund it.

What is wrong with labour.

What's with that picture, do they think poor people can't put a brush through their kid's hair?

How on earth are interpreting that from twistys posts? Adding VAT on school fees has added net almost nothing to the exchequer added to pressure on state school. It has actively harmed children in poverty. The parents who would have gone to private school are more able to take up the places and resources the state schools have. There have been no winners from the policy other than those who just don't want other people to have shiny things they can't afford themselves.

I don't know, I didn't write the article, hugely missing the point there!

Nonsense. You seem to be projecting an awful lot of your own feelings here. It's not because people think they're better than others. It's because they're frightened that NHS provision is often so woefully inadequate that thousands die each year unnecessarily, simply because they're not seen and treated within a reasonable time frame. And that's before we get to the quality of treatments, which aren't always as good on the NHS for cost reasons.

Most people with private medical insurance have it because it's part of their remuneration package from employment. Others, like me, scrimp to afford it and sacrifice elsewhere to ensure they can be treated promptly if a major issue arises. I am the sole carer for a 10 year old and have little family. If I get cancer and die my child is absolutely screwed. I'm not confident that the NHS will treat me quickly enough and so we go without fancy holidays etc to pay for the cover. I resent having to do so when I already pay taxes and should be able to expect decent healthcare on the NHS. But such is the shitshow we live in these days and I have to deal with what is, not what should be.

How do you know Reeves doesn't know what shes planning?

Where the fuck have I said that? You're putting words into my mouth which don't exist.

I am saying that for SOME families, they could afford independent schools but instead spend money on buying houses in best catchment areas for best state schools. That's optional so why not tax them? If you can afford a £2M house you can afford a 2-4K tax per year. After all that's what we were told!

It just annoys me that there was an editorial choice to illustrate poverty with an approximation of neglect. It's not you fault, it just pisses me off.

Why don't we let the poor be represented with a bit of dignity?

Thank you for this though because it has reminded me that the court verdict clearly stated that not all families are wealthy and that some on benefits use independent schools.
Also the PTAs of some state schools are able to raise 6 figs+ to aid their schools.

Here is the court summary:

What utter, utter tosh. I paid to go private after at least 5 NHS Drs and specialists missed what was wrong with me. One private consultation, one scan and an operation later, I was cured, after YEARS in pain. Christ knows where I would be if I hadn’t, the condition I had can be fatal.
Let’s be honest here, you sound bitter and unpleasant.

"Twisty's" posts were promoting the idea that private school is not exclusive and that any old person can afford it giving an example of £6000 fees, well I'm afraid that is bubble talk as you need to categorically have money to be able put aside £6000 for an education. Everybody I know who uses private school at least has £150000 income, this is for secondary age. Equally, as I am in the south east the parents are always 50 + as they have property bought when it was still affordable. I do have friends that would never choose private school as they think it is a waste of money but it isn't envy politics- believe me.

I don't actually think it is a big money raiser but to say it is available for all is just massively misleading and unfair on people who have no choice and live in dire situations. Just be thankful that you don't.

She needs to go through the OBR process first. She probably doesn’t know how much is needed.

Yep.

Does she come across as someone who has any idea whats going on? In her conference speech yesterday she spoke about all the money she spending but nothing about where it is coming from. Simply to quote: "I will make my choices at that Budget." Helpful - she has 4 weeks and presumably praying for a miracle.

So much of the budget is going to rest on how much we will be charged in interest on our debt mountain. And at the moment she has her fingers crossed that it will come down.

Yes, to be fair, that is a good point.

Except I didn't say "any old person coukd afford it" did I?
That's your bias attributing words I never said.

I said, many better off parents who have new cars/multiple foreign holidays etc could afford it.

The COURT said some parents who use independent schools are on benefits. I didn't say that. It also said 25% are from lower income families. Which I did say and the court supports my statement.

I think she will say nothing until she has the forecasts then go big and hope. My money is on VAT going to 25%. That would raise £40bn job done in one hit.

Accident of birth shouldn't determine the quality of your education. Well resourced education should be an option for 'All' children and here in the UK, we are massively letting down our children with this two tier approach.

And also mean many of us just cannot afford to live anymore. Brilliant.

Starmer and Reeves don’t give a fuck. I reckon go ahead and pop the vat on healthcare, it’s a luxury after all. Labour paved the way for this quite nicely with private school vat (which many PS parents pointed out on MN at the time). It’s a shame people can’t what is really happening when these sorts of policies are passed.

Yet its not. In NE we constantly and consistently get lowest GCSE and A level grades in England whilst London get the top. Education is a postcode lottery. Blaming independent schools is a distraction from Labour and yourself from not improving state schools.

Not least because we are lumbered with a near universal comprehensive school system, where lack of differentiation fails the area at the feet of being equal.

Toast if so.

She also answers questions in a way that is noncommittal. Will you raise VAT? ‘Our VAT pledge still stands’. Well yeh it does today, how about at the budget?

She doesn’t know, she’s got Starmer type lawyer lines in response.

The government have been clear on this: Don't worry about it.

"Sir Keir Starmer’s right-hand man has said “you don’t need to worry” about a potential rise in VAT.

Challenged on his remark that the manifesto pledge not to raise VAT “stands today”, Darren Jones, the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister said: “Now it’s tomorrow today and it still stands.”

Pressed to explain his language, Mr Jones said: “You don’t need to worry about it.”