To think Starmer calling Refom and its supporters ‘racist’ is politically suicidal?

[SpottyAardvark]

Starmer has called Reform’s policy of ending indefinite right to remain for non-EU immigrants ‘immoral’ & ‘racist’. Reform supporters, and people who are considering voting for Reform because of their concerns about immigration, will inevitably think the Prime Minister is calling them immoral racists, too. And that will infuriate millions of voters.

I understand that it’s Labour’s conference this week and because he is under a lot of political pressure from his own side, Starmer believes he has to throw some red meat to his party. That’s politics. But Starmer has obviously forgotten what happened to Hillary Clinton when she described Trump voters as ‘deplorable’. That didn’t work out well for her, did it?

YABU = Starmer is right. Reform and its supporters are racists and he should call it out.

YANBU = Starmer has just committed political suicide by falling into Farage’s trap and he has alienated working class voters.

@persephonia
Do you think a proposal that says migrants who entered the country legally will have to learn English to a high standard, have a clean criminal record, and volunteer in their community to get settled status is a racist policy?

To recap:

• You said Starter had called reform supporters at the rally racist
• I directly quoted him where he said that he condemned attacks on police, but didn't say that all the people on the march were racist
• You replied that not everyone on the march attacked police officers
• I said noone said that
• You said that you don't understand why I talked about police officers.

If you think Keir Starmer called all Reform supporters racist, either find the quote or accept it's something that you inferred/imagined.

Many did vote for Labour at the last GE, that’s the issue for Starmer. He is putting in policies to try to get them back, there’s not much point if he also insults them. He ticks down each week in ratings.

I think he's just wising up to the fact that appealing to reform voters is pointless, they will never vote Labour. All he's been doing by pandering to them is isolating the people who would vote Labour. I was a lifelong Labour member and I've cancelled by membership over his lack of conviction.

I think a proposal to revoke the right of remain for existing immigrants who have already gone through all the processes required of them in good faith is completely immoral and wrong.

I don't think having processes in place by which people gain right of remain is racist. We already have that. Even changing the rules for future applicants isnt automatically wrong. In fact that's what the (Labour) Home Secretary is talking about. Volunteering is actually a really good way to make people feel more rooted in their communities.

Making people reapply every 5 years, with no chance of ever.getting permanent status would be hugely expensive, time consuming, unfair on normal people and their families. The only benefit is the feeling of "punishing" those groups by making life difficult.for no reason. It's the exact opposite to making feel more rooted.

But pandering to the idea of sending back immigrants who have done everything required of them to stay and already have legal right of remain is pandering to "remigration rhetoric". Which is racist. And Nigel Farage himself said as much 6 months ago.

Here you go!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vz91x5ynzo.amp

“The prime minister said the flag represented "our diverse country" and that he would not allow people to feel "intimidated on our streets because of their background or the colour of their skin".”

So he’s basically calling people racist for waving a flag. Many reform supporters were at that rally so he’s basically calling those who attended the rally a racist for waving a flag.

Just... Explain how you reached that interpretation.

"I like flags. I think racist intimidation is bad"
Is not "flags are racist". It's the exact opposite meaning.

I just typed out a response basically saying, yeah what you did but deleted it as.... whut 😂
Can't even
Glad to see it's not just me lol

He called the policy racist

And it is

Its the truth and its about time politicians spoke honestly

People have a choice if they want to vote for racist policies or not all the main parties have policies around dealing with immigration not just Reform not all have to revert to being racist

Oh behave. He is practically saying that people who are waving flags are intimidating people because of the colour of their skin

Surely if you say that a party’s policy is racist you are also labelling those who want to vote for that policy as ‘racist’ too.

Exactly! He's literally saying the exact opposite 😕

I’m interested too and for @HRTQueen

In fairness there are people whose words I just don't trust. Elon Musk for example. I doubt there is anything he could say at this point that would make me think "maybe he's a decent guy". But I know that I'm analysing his words from that stance.
"Practically saying" and "basically saying" means "did not actually say".

Practically saying" and "basically saying" means "did not actually say

Agree

I don’t see why volunteering should be a requirement.

(I also would want the point on having a criminal record be nuanced. I don’t think getting a speeding fine 20 years ago should be a barrier to permanent residency.)

My own experience is previously living in another country and I started volunteering because I felt lonely/quite isolated. It was the single best thing I could have done. It helped me with language learning and making friends more than anything else did. And I think I got a better idea of how the country actually worked than I would have otherwise. So I am very pro volunteering for that reason. But I suppose how beneficial it is depends on how it's done/whether suitable volunteering opportunities are there..it could just be a tick box exercise.

I don’t think volunteering is bad.

I just don’t think it should be a requirement.

Exactly! And also, for how long etc? What if you have small children and childcare is difficult to access? It seems like another populist soundbite, the undertone being 'make yourself useful' which supposes they aren't by default. Is it a form of mandatory community service?

Why appeal to a group of voters whilst calling them insulting names. Labour are all over the place.

You cannot get Swiss citizenship ship unless you can demonstrate you are active in the community. That generally entails joining community groups and doing whatever it is. Dog school, walking groups, tennis, whatever. You also need 3 Swiss citizens to vouch for you, and if you have claimed social benefits in the last 10 years ( you need to have been living in Switzerland continuously for 10 years) then you are immediately rejected for citizenship.
UK rules are not strict enough.

I mentioned foxes because you said some people support hunting for food.
Nobody eats foxes but Farage supports fox hunting.

I guess the foxes were there before you and that they weren't the worst noise happening in London at 3am.

They ARE a racist party.

This is the thing, a lot of people simply don’t have the to volunteer between paid work and domestic labour and caring responsibilities.

So how will Reform policy work? They probably don’t care.

I don’t care what happens in Switzerland.