Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

[Kirova]

I get the point he's trying to make, of course, but it seems like a stick to beat parents with (and particularly mothers, of course). There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school. Apart from anything else, some are nearly a year younger than others in their cohort, so clearly they are not going to be in the same place.

My youngest daughter was born premature, has a significant hearing impairment and various other difficulties. She will soon be two, and while she's doing brilliantly, I doubt she'll be "school-ready" by the government's current definition when she is four.

Not sure what my point is exactly, it just seems like another absurd over-simplification on the theme of failing our children, state of the country, etc.

I remember children who puddled the floor in assembly being smacked 🙈 and no, you couldn’t do it legally. Just arsehole teachers.

There is a difference between children with additional needs and school readiness. The school needs their resources to be used for the benefit of children with SEN and these are massively diluted and shared out if you have children starting school who haven't been taught basic independent tasks like putting on and taking off their coats, opening their lunchbox or drink bottle, using the toilet, opening and closing their bag and knowing what a book is and that you don't swipe it to turn the page. They should be able to sit and listen to someone read a story and not lose interest because it's not on a screen. Rhymes and story are hugely important for development along with talking and playing with your child.

I wish there was more outcry over this not less. If you are worrying about having your children ready for school, you're more than likely already trying to do a good job at raising them.

Many countries where formal education starts later still have nurseries/kindergarten. And in fact some of these countries positively encourage parents to send their children to them, so much so there are very few playgroups, toddler sessions unlike this country.

We are soon going to struggle to blame COVID for new school starters as they will have been born post the most draconian lockdown rules.

When I was a child (many years ago!) I wouldn’t have been able to go to preschool/school in nappies. You had to be toilet trained. Nowadays, schools can’t refuse entry because of SEND but I think quite a few other families take advantage of this.

Back in the day..... Groan, I know, but......

You didn't wait for children to be ready to be toilet trained, you did it from the minute they could sit up. Yes, yes, it's not completely independent, but if you start early with the concept of sitting and weeing, it's very easy to progress from that.

No baby led weaning. Sit at the table in your high chair, and get fed pureed whatever everyone else is eating. Watching the table etiquette, the use of cutlery, joining in. Again, you don't expect them to pick up a knife and fork at age one, but if they have been involved from that age, it's not a stretch when you move on a little later.

Lots of other little things, getting choices of what to eat and what to wear, No. Being consulted on what you want to do. No. Being taught to respect your elders, and conforming to societal norms. Yes.

It all sounds very old fashioned, but it worked.

DD's went to (Montessori) nursery very young, and even there they were expected to play nicely, share, eat at the table, have set naps, do what they were told etc etc

But that’s your problem to fix, not theirs. There’s nothing they can do to fundamentally alter themselves?

This is not an issue for parents alone, it's a societal issue.

Many people no longer want to have kids. Parenting nowadays looks too hard and thankless. Parent-bashing has to stop.

There is very little evidence that today's parents are lazier than their predecessors. By contrast, they spend much more time with their children, while also working longer hours, than parents did in the past.

There are clearly things going wrong in family life but that is only one part of the puzzle as to why children are behind on skills that would previously be expected.

This !

I've worked in reception classes previously and by school ready they mean toilet trained / can follow basic instructions , can dress / undress (not buttons , but a T shirt and trouser / simple skirt or dress ) and non lace shoes / socks . Recognise their name (written ) use cutlery

With exception of those with additional needs , most 4 year olds (even summer born ) with a bit of parental support are capable of this !

Support staff are valuable commodities (I shared one with the other devotion class teacher ) and there to support learning not toilet train kids because parents won’t !

Honestly your use of vocabulary and correct spelling leaves me doubting how ‘working class’ you appear to others even if you truly are.

I'm 44 and when I started school there was no expectation that children could read and write at all. Those of us who could, great, but it wasn't the norm. We were taught to read and write AT school. If 4 and 5 year olds aren't reading and writing it's not an indication of anything at all.

Dammit, quote disappeared.

I watched and didn’t hear that at all! Need to go back to the recording.

In fairness. Nice middle class women can also suffer from mental health struggles/postnatal depression. And it can be hard to see from the outside how well someone is doing with the whole parenting malarkey. I had a lovely friend who became very unwell after her second pregnancy, but this expressed itself in extreme perfectionism- being beautifully put together, having perfectly dressed children, perfectly clean house. Even if it meant staying up all night cleaning (which just made her more unwell). Or having a huge emotional overreaction to some clothes getting dirty. On the surface of you walked past her in the street she probably would have fitted the description the other poster wrote. But once you saw a bit more it was obvious she was deeply unwell and needed help for her own and her children's sake.

That's not to invalidate the fact that having a space filled with smug middle class types could put off other service users. Maybe there need to be more spaces/more peer support. But it's not always the case that everyone who looks well put together isn't drowning.

I doubt (if it’s true that he said this) that he’s talking about children with the sorts of issues you’re describing.

It’s not aimed at SEND children but just ridiculous that children with no extra needs are going to school in nappies, which is just lazy parenting. 25 year ago the only children who weren’t toilet trained between 18-24 months was just SEND children, schools now have can’t get themselves dressed, they can’t concentrate as are use to screens so they just flick from one thing to the next.

I have seen similar behaviour and I'm similarly dubious about gentle 'parenting'.

I imagine Covid has had a big impact on this. My DS was of course way out of nappies, could speak properly, read and know numbers at the right level. But socially he struggled and his teacher said every child in his reception class was the same. I remember adults shouting at him/me if he waddled too close during Covid years - at such an age when you’re developing this has had a massive impact.

Couple this with many people who were expected to work from home and manage childcare at the same time no wonder many have relied on screens.

I’m guessing the poster means rather than not know how to wash their hands, it’s a case that they haven’t been taught by parents that hands need washing after they’ve used the toilet.

I think most of us will realise that Starmer did not mean to include children with medical issues or SN.

What?! I’m WC myself (lorry driver dad). She seems quite eloquent and as such I said I don’t think anyone will make assumptions about her.

I suspect a fair bit of it has to do with families prioritising. If you're exhausted, working long hours and crushed from things constantly being difficult, then survival, rather than getting your kids "school-ready", will be the priority.

How can kids thrive if their parents are barely surviving?

I had one child who was school ready and another with severe additional needs which still wouldn't be now at the age of 6, and likely never will be, as he is that disabled. It is a bit annoying like a PM makes such poorly informed sweeping statements. The only reason my son was in a mainstream in year R was because the council were woefully bad at planning and ensuring there were enough specialist places for children that are disabled enough to need them. If they actually fixed that issue instead of blaming parents by default then they might find the issue goes away.

There used to be a box of spare knickers! I think it's quite common/normal for children to have accidents. They are still little. Especially in assemblies where it's drummed into them you are supposed to sit still, it's easy for it to be "too late" very quickly. But I think small children having the occasional accident is different to children (with no SEN) just not being out of nappies.

What has happened with the toilet thing? I mean, it was just another milestone when I was growing up, parents before and a proud one to get through. Why are so many parents not teaching their children how to toilet? I understand some children out there need more help and kids grow at a different pace, but not potty training so so many children (approx a quarter of all children) by the time they are five seems, well, very strange.

Surely if parents are too shattered to potty train, which is part of parenting, don't have children? What takes longer, potty training or keep changing nappies, cleaning them up several times a day, checking for sores and bath nights every night?

At the end of the day, school is about learning only.. It is the parents responsibility to do their bit.