Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

[Kirova]

I get the point he's trying to make, of course, but it seems like a stick to beat parents with (and particularly mothers, of course). There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school. Apart from anything else, some are nearly a year younger than others in their cohort, so clearly they are not going to be in the same place.

My youngest daughter was born premature, has a significant hearing impairment and various other difficulties. She will soon be two, and while she's doing brilliantly, I doubt she'll be "school-ready" by the government's current definition when she is four.

Not sure what my point is exactly, it just seems like another absurd over-simplification on the theme of failing our children, state of the country, etc.

Its the system - unhelpful that all children are expected to attend school at just turned 4. For most it is far too young and 5 would be better. Great for those that are ready but I think they should be allowed to start early and 5 should be the norm.

Statistically parents now spend more time with their children than they did in the 60s and 70s. There was a lot more being left to your own devices or being left in unregulated childcare. You also wouldn't have been in a SS for failure to use cutlery...

Whatever else you lay at Labour's door, given they've only been in power for just over a year, the school readiness of the current reception cohort isn't their fault. I think it was clumsily worded on the PMs part but he probably meant he was sick of young children being failed by the system.

Yabu because I don't think he was aiming it at you OP.

He was aiming it at parents who can't be bothered to toilet train etc. It's often the same parents who don't bother to ask kids to do homework, don't teach manners etc. There needs to be a certain level of accountability with adults raising children.

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It means

• toilet trained (unless a medical, developmental reason why unable)
• able to take self to toilet, go to toilet, flush, wash hands and return to the group
• to be able to feed themselves with knife and fork
• to be able to take off and out on their own coat and shoes independently - some may need help with buttons/zips
• able to take turns and share most of the time

-to be able to sit and listen to a story or lesson for at least 10 minutes

My oldest acheived all these easily a year before starting, but she is one of the oldest in her year. My youngest is a summer born, premature, has digestive issues which made toilet training harder, and probably only acheived them all a couple months before starting - children do vary widely. And some children do have additional needs which make it harder, but they let teachers know before starting what sorts of support their child may need, are at leaston wait lists for extra support. The biggest challenge are those where parents have written 'no concerns etc' on admission forms, and then they start and are clearly way behind where they should be.

Toilets have to be organised, because of vaping and the feeling of intimidation. Our students have cards which they scan to access the bathrooms. It means key stage 4 cannot enter the key stage 3 bathrooms.

If you have two parents, who are working 9-5 in an office and rely on childcare, they probably aren’t seeing their child enough in the hours around to make a meaningful impact on potty training.

When my daughter was in that stage, I worked both part time and full time. It was far easier to be consistent when I was part time.

Their childcare would then take it on. You coincide the start of potty training with a long weekend or holiday then they manage it day to day and you do it in the evening. It’s not like potty training stops when their parents work 😂

DS was useless with cutlery an still had the occasional accident at school - he wasn't diagnosed with ASD and dyspraxia (NHS) until he was 10.

I bet any money that almost all of these kids have undiagnosed disabilities and it has nothing at all to do with lazy parenting. If you're a lazy parent then there's no way in hell you want to still be changing nappies on a 4 year old, not to mention the cost.

I'm sick of hearing about it too, this topic has been done to fucking death and teachers are the worst. They're absolutely clueless about ASD, dyspraxia, etc etc.

If nearly all these kids who are not potty trained are poorly then there should be a national concern. 1 in 4 children are not potty trained by the time they start school - that is a LOT of children who are poorly?

Unless you have 1-2-1, a childcare provider is not going to be able to give as much time as a child needs in regards to consistency. They can be a great helper in toilet training but can’t do it all.

Well done if your child got it in a weekend. Most people I know did not get it that quickly. It took a while . Longer because childcare might do it one way (or want nappies on as they don’t want to have to do constant changes) and parents another

Where is your concern over the billions wasted on PPE, every single fast track contracts went to a someone linked to a conservative MP?
I get fed up with selective politics bashing, if going to get on your high horse, tell them all off.

Am not being funny but it is still not the job of the school. It's the parents responsibility and it ends there.

We can send a man to the moon and suddenly potty training own child is too troublesome?

For some children, there is a biological or developmental reason why they are not school ready. However, this isn't about those children. This is about the children who aren't talked to enough, so they do not have the speaking, listening and communication skills necessary. The ones that have had only screens to entertain them who do not know how to play nor have not developed the necessary motor skills. And finally, those whose parents have not put much effort in to nappy training.

It’s totally reasonable. The vast majority of kids that aren’t school ready have nothing in any way relating to SEN as factors, rather lazy parents that keep them in nappies til the 3.5 and don’t teach them skills such as using cutlery or tying their bloody shoelaces. It’s ridiculous.

I'm aware why it being done.

However it's now so common and parents are all aware it's happening - so I'm surprised you were claiming parents are expecting secondary school staff to help with toileting when increasing numbers have no access or very limited access to toilets at all.

Any source for that?

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How do you know? How would anyone know? Considering waiting lists are years long just for the assessment, and children start reception at 4/5 .

Neither of my children potty trained in a weekend. I kicked it off at the weekend and the childcare (nursery) continued it. They didn’t need 121. The nursery had 15 2-3 year olds in it, all the various stages of potty training 😂 how else does it happen when your kids are in nursery 8-6? It’s perfectly common to do it together.

Start own thread.

These students won’t go in the normal toilets….

Any source to say that's not true?

Do all incidents of bad parenting mean the child must be investigated for a possible SEN?