Muslim wives legally invisible

[ShowMeTheHunny]

Perhaps this should be in the feminism chat, but I’ve just found out something shocking: 60% of British Muslim women are in Nikah only marriages.

Nikah is a religious marriage ceremony. Unlike Jewish or Christian marriages, there is no automatic civil registration.

This means that under British law a Muslim woman with a Nikah marriage is in fact not married at all. If the relationship ends (through separation, divorce, or death), she has: no right to spousal maintenance, no claim to property or pensions, no inheritance rights and no access to the protections of the UK Family Court.

This has been raised in parliament. This has been raised by judges. The 2018 government review found that many Muslim women believed their Nikah marriage had legal standing.

Anything done about it? Nope.

I wondered if this is covered in schools. There is a statutory relationships and sex education guidance that the DfE published which schools must follow. It does require teaching about marriage, but NOTHING in the statutory wording prompts schools to explain the difference between a religious-only ceremony and a civilly recognised marriage.

So, many/most of you might be thinking, ‘So what? It’s none of our business to interfere with others’ religious or cultural practices! Surely it’s the same situation in other countries?’

Nope. The following countries ensure, through legislation, that Islamic marriage ceremonies happen after or alongside civil registration:

France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Finland, Sweden….basically all the European countries….except Britain.

Anyway, anyone else shocked?

True! So many on MN.

I think, to be fair, it hasn’t needed legislation for the many other religions and ceremonies British people undertake which aren’t legally binding so you can see why they wouldn’t feel the need for one religion? Or I can, at least.

Absolutely, it doesn’t fix the problem completely but it does level the playing field a bit.

I don't see how that would work in a country that doesn't have Islam as any kind of state religion and also has freedom of religion and speech, no. It requires buy in from the people concerned, which isn't something that can be imposed.

So for example I'm British, I had a wedding in a Catholic church that incorporated both the sacrament and the legal ceremony. I don't actually recognise any rights the British state might assert over the former. It simply isn't for them to decide whether a Catholic sacrament is valid or not, any more than the RC church should have a say on whether the legalities were validly completed or not.

So let's say we do create some kind of structure for recognising nikahs conducted in the UK as legally valid if registered, and say they don't count otherwise. This doesn't then mean the people having the nikahs think the British state gets to decide whether they're valid or not. It creates the possibility that such ceremonies will still happen outside of the legal registration process. This is where the need for change via education and culture comes in.

Remember when Jerry Hall thought she'd been married to Mick Jagger for years, until they split!

When she filed for divorce it turned out their romantic ceremony in Bali wasn't an official wedding.

its possible to have a Jewish wedding without a civil wedding, but I think its very unusual. Usually they are done at the same time. I remember someone from the rabbinic office bringing me civil documents to sign during our Jewish wedding.

I don't think its a widespread issue in the UK regarding Jewish weddings.

But of course anyone can find a complicit Rabbi to do a chuppah without the civil formalities if they want. I don't think you even need a qualified Rabbi.

In the US i think the Jewish and civil weddings are done entirely seperately.

Legislation wouldn’t be and shouldn’t be specific to one religion here. It should be any religious marriage. The purpose is to protect women not to stigmatise a group of people. This wouldn’t be a problem if the mosques were doing the right thing in the first place.

I believe that it is an offence to have a 'non legal' marriage under UK law its just that it isnt enforced. I suggest that revising the law to make it clear and easy to understand as well as publicising this.

I gather that it is common when Jews divorce for the civil divorce to include a requirement that the husband grants a religious divorce as well.

perhaps this needs to be made a standard 'term' in all civil divorces

Some Jewish celebrants are registered and I assume some not.
I got married in a non conformist church in Hackney which like Jewish and Catholic religious buildings don't have automatic registration. The registrar for our church had moved away but luckily we wanted him anyway so he came back.
While registering at Hackney Town Hall we saw the other "banns" posted on the wall which included Catholic IIRC and definitely Jewish.

DH used to be the registrar for his non conformist church - the pastor did the service and he listened out for the appropriate words and then wrote up the register.

Did you read my first post? Civil registration is legally required in every European country I looked at

NRTFT so apologies if I’m repeating pp’s
In at least one major UK city; Sharia Law is recognised for domestic issues. This includes marriage and divorce. It is weighted against women. A woman can be divorced and outcast on little to NO evidence/reason and find herself completely lost/ overwhelmed/ scared etc and trying to navigate a benefits system she has very little knowledge of how to access.
I am aware that there are Muslim women in my city who are well educated and have good, well paid jobs inc GP’s, pharmacists and medical/business consultants. They are visible. Many Muslim women are not and they are the ones who need the protection of a state recognised marriage and divorce.

How do they deal with the ceremony involving wife number 2?

Surely, it’s not that Britain refuses to recognise Islamic marriages. The only religious ceremony that’s automatically legal is Church of England. Every other faith is treated the same—Catholic, Sikh, Jewish, Muslim. Imams can even register as registrars just like priests. I’ve been to a nikah where they did the religious part and then straight after did the legal bit too.

So the problem isn’t the law, it’s that in some communities people either don’t know about, or avoid, the civil side. Suddenly making Islamic ceremonies legally binding won’t fix that. If the marriage isn’t registered properly, it still won’t be recognised—and if women don’t know their rights under civil law, they’ll still be left unprotected in divorce.

Education is the answer and how to deliver that so that people can make informed choice is the questions which needs answering.

One thing this definitely wouldn't be is 'easy'.

It's a significant restriction on both freedom of religion and freedom of speech. That's going to be very divisive and lead to a lot of opposition, not just from Muslims either. It also doesn't sound like you realise that nikahs can be done in private homes or even remotely. The celebrant might not even be in the UK!

If a man is legally married, can he then take another traditional wife? I could see why some communities wouldn't want this put into legislation. I know African women who are happy to have traditional marriages and be one of many, as long as their children are recognised, within the families, via a traditional ceremony.

As for cousin marriages, they make up 3%, in mainly Pakistani born communities. So we don't need to give equal concern.

Yep, and what your post didn't say is that this means no nikah ever takes place outside those strictures and that the community only recognise the ones that go through the legal registration process. I'm guessing you're not making that claim?

Part of a wider problem with islamification. The line between allowing cultural identities and upholding women's rights, and our British identity and human rights, has got very fuzzy. For example animal rights seemed to go out of the window when it came to halal?

Let’s take France as an example. The number of polygamous marriages in France is much much lower than in the UK, largely because the civil-first rule (you’re not allowed a religious ceremony unless you present the civil marriage certificate) closes off the loophole. Also, Immigration law since the 1990s has blocked recognition of multiple wives arriving from abroad. Only the first marriage is accepted for residency and welfare purposes.

As upthread, any non-CoE wedding is invalid without registration afaik.

It's halal to stun an animal before slaughter. It isn't kosher though.

Tbh I though everyone knew? When my mother married my step dad 51 years ago, she had a traditional muslim wedding, but had been to the registry office earlier in the day for the civil/legal part. It’s always been this way - the issue here is that clearly they are not educating women entering islamic marriages that this is the case, so they are not doing the civil ceremony along side. This, to me, reeks of misogyny and control. Either they legally require officiants of islamic weddings to ensure that couples have already been through a civic procedure before proceeding OR we change the law to ensure they are legally recognised.

Do they not recognise polygamous marriages where those involved are not French nationals?

But what happens in the cases of the possible other three wives - as a pp has mentioned some Muslim 'wives' are one of four.

Not necessarily. Some halal certifications allow stunning some dont.

Why would they? AFAIK no European countries do - you can't bring in your second wife to the UK even if you are from an African country where these are legal. Legally speaking in the UK this would be like saying "I've brought my wife over, now I want to bring my girlfriend".