To wonder what women mean when they say they want their bf/husband to be 'dominant' and 'take the lead'?

[TheKingOfTheCats]

I'm not talking about odd online tradwife stuff or strictly religious people who think wives should submit.

It's more that, while I'm not dating myself atm (& mainly date women) I'm interested in relationship dynamics generally & on SM & a lot of online dating advice (for m/f couples) I notice a lot of women saying they want a 'dominant' male partner who will 'take the lead'. Also some saying that men these days aren't dominant enough.

Don't look at male views so much, though quite a few do cite submissiveness as being attractive.

IRL I'm at uni atm & most of my friends w bfs don't seem to make a huge thing of this. They may like outward trappings like the boy being the one to ask out or organise dates, but generally don't seem to have an overall 'leader'.

What do people think?

Part of me thinks that a lot of it is US dynamics (a lot of it is US), as they seem to be more into gender roles there, and there may be crossover with the trad stuff.

I also think that a lot of women may understandably want the man to take more of a lead in the courtship stage to prove he's willing to commit & provide esp if she wants children and may be potentially vulnerable then.

I suppose I'm more thinking about women who feel to the need to be 'led' by a 'dominant man' well into an established relationship. It seems a bit depressingly antifeminist to me - after all, wasn't equal rights all about leaving behind retrograde ideas about the man being head of the household and the wife being submissive & obedient?

On here, I've often noticed women complain about 'DH not taking lead', but it seems generally to be a complaint about husbands who require their wives to organise & initiate everything, rather than wanting the husband to generally be the 'leader'.

🤣

I agree with this. I could never be a ‘trad-wife’ type person but equally I could never be married to someone who wants me to do everything and wants me to make every decision. There are times when I really struggle with decision making and fine it very stressful so I really value that my DH is confident and smart enough to take the lead on things when it is needed. He is my partner not my boss but equally I am not his.

I see my brother who needs his partner to do every little thing as he is totally incapable to the point where she was in hospital for a month and he needed his MIL and my Mum to not only take care of his partners needs in hospital but also bring him food, clean the house and take care of his child because he just didn’t know how to function on his own. That is pathetic behaviour for a man.

That's terrible. Yes, definitely men should be able to be relied on if needed. It's really weird that men who are apparently competent professionally sometimes still act that way at home.

To me it means women who want this are not capable of being an an adult and have some weird daddy issues going on, my husband and I both have times where one of us makes decisions over the other but we are mature fully formed adults

If you want man to treat you like a child then that is what you get

This is what it means to me. I have three kids I have to make decisions for and take care of, as well as myself, and a full-time job. My ex husband, even if he technically did something nice like take me out for dinner, would ask me where I wanted to go. So instead of it being a nice thing, it became just another decision I had to make, and felt like another burden.

Spot on.

All sounds great ( especially if he is also dominant in bed) except for opinionated, I really don’t like men who thinks their opinions hold more value than a woman’s….or has too many strong unmovable opinions / a very fixed mind…..they have to be able to listen and agree that sometimes they might be wrong

I can see that...I suppose some men who do that might be trying to be thoughtful to make sure you like where you go for the meal. But if you want to have a break from decisions, they should respond to that & take the weight.

I get that they think they're being nice and accommodating. But it can just be too much sometimes. I just want someone who takes the load off sometimes. It's not about having "Daddy issues," like another poster suggested. 🙄

I would prefer if they consulted with me and asked me if I had a preference for a restaurant before they booked it unless it was a place that they were sure I liked, I think that’s courteous and thoughtful …….I think sometimes some men really can’t win, they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t …..

If men make decisions its controlling and if women make them they have to do think and do everything

What it would mean to me

When the door knocks, get up and answer it don’t look at me.

When somethings breaks, don’t tell me just fix it.

Go to the counter and order, don’t give me the card and tell me what you want.

Speak to the teacher, don’t wait for me.

Take them to the Drs, dentists and any other medical appointments and ask questions. Get information.

Put stuff away when you see it needs to be put away, don’t wait to be asked

Defend me without being asked

Actively search and book fun things

That's completely understandable. 'Daddy issues' comment was ridiculous. I do think that women who DO actually want to be 'led' by a 'dominant' may in some cases have that issue (tho obvs there's lots of other factors.) But that's clearly not what you meant.

Tbf I'd prefer to be asked too. But obvs women differ, partners need to adapt to each other's preferences.

And obvs lots of people like surprises, it's a bit like if someone doesn't know what you want as a present- it's nice to know someone planned it out & thought about what you'd like.

And obvs I'm sure men might sometimes like a similar treat!

Balance is best, I think it's unhealthy if either partner controls any relationship area completely, even if both are ostensibly OK with that.

That all seems reasonable. Presumably with the ordering thing you mean you'd want him to ask you what you wanted before ordering?

The defending thing reminds me of when I was reading 'Kim Jiyoung, born 1982' recently, a novel about the sexism faced by South Korean women. In one bit the everywoman protagonist is treated horribly by her parents in law for not giving up work when she gets pregnant. Her husband is nice but just kind of stands by. It made me think that ironically some patriarchal cultures rely on the husband being passive in the face of mistreatment of his wife by extended family : I've read similar about other places where women are in some ways more subordinate to the PILs than husband.

I wonder if many of women who profess to want this are freshly divorced from men who were feckless and hopelessly passive.

I mean, I wouldn’t mind a man who ‘took the lead’ in booking holidays, organising DC’s activities, setting up doctor’s and dentist’s appointments and all the other shit I end up doing single-handedly for everyone all the goddamn time. If he had enough energy left after all that for doing a bit of light dominating then I could probably be OK with that.

That sounds really tough. Yes, I think a lot is probably that, and also simular from young women whose partners are wrapped up in themselves.

I'm specifically speaking about my ex-husband and what I would look for in a future partner, which would be the opposite of him. But he isn't damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, because I would have been happy to make a decision about a restaurant if he had made a decision about anything else in our lives ever.

I used a date as the example, but he could have taken the lead in ordering the children's School pictures so that I didn't have to do it or packing their lunches so I didn't have to do it or making sure that they had everything in their backpacks so I didn't have to do it.

Yes, at least I am.

Exactly, you were talking about a long term partner who should be attuned to your needs. It's not like a woman getting cross at a man on a first date who might not be lazy but just unsure what she wants.

This reinforces to me how the patriarchal idea of wife following the husband's lead has always ignored that it essentially puts the burden on women to lead significant areas. See the Victorian & pre-Victorian era, where men had absolute rights over child custody etc but left all the childcare etc to women (& female servants depending on class). So women got a lot of hard work, but still the idea was pushed that men should make the biggest decisions (so financial, voting etc- you can see now some online 'trad' types argue the wife should follow her husband's voting opinion). A bit like Gone With The Wind, where Scarlett's mother does a huge amount of the farm managing, but is expected to give all the credit to her husband.

I suspect that now even women who really do want to be passively led ALL the time would want some authority in some areas, childraising for one. Some women who talk about the 'dominant' stuff seem to want the man to have financial control & organise that stuff, but I think this is inadvisable. In the UK there's anyway a long history of women organising money and being entrusted to do that.

I date kind of this. Sorry Mumsnet.

I expect a man to pay for everything. It's not rare for them to pay for my Uber to the date or pay for my Uber home if I don't want to sleep over with him.

If they want to pay 50/50, of course I don't make a scene. But there won't be a second date.

I expect the man to choose the location and when he's proposed it and I've accepted it then he needs to move on to suggesting a time.

If he doesn't confirm on the day of the date before 4pm, I don't go on the date. I don't message him. I just don't go. When he messages, I say I wasn't clear it was going ahead.

I expect him to wait for me to choose my drink and then order for me and make sure my drink is topped up.

Basically, I expect them to do everything for me.

Men who can cope with these expectations are of course ones who are happy to take the lead and please me. They probably could be described as dominant in one sense or another

I would rather be single forever than do another second of labour for a man.

Interesting - kind of paradoxical in that you want a dominant man yet you want him to do the labour! In that sense, aren't you the dominant one?

I get this dynamic in the early stage of dating, at least somewhat, though it's not my thing.

But does this mean that in a long term relationship you'd still expect the man to do all the 'labour? Surely not..?

Why does a man have to pay? Are you not capable?