To think it's a bit harsh to say people who've never worked shouldn't get benefits?

[DonaldBiden]

Was reading another thread where many were saying if someone has never worked they shouldn't get any benefits but couldn't comment because it had reached 1000 comments.

I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I don't agree because that would include young mums who can't work because they have a baby to look after. Most of them will get a job when their child is a little older. Why are they any different from older mums who've fallen on hard times and need help?

And I know people will say it's because they've never worked and haven't proven themselves unlazy etc and could be on the dole forever but why should they have their lives ruined just because of something people think MIGHT happen.

And cost the state much more money than if we gave their parents benefits

"Children raised in poverty often have bad outcomes."

Looked after children often have worse outcomes but that is being advocated by some.

My mum had my brother at 17. She was given a council flat and benefits until he was older and she got some part time work topped up with benefits.

What are people actually proposing as the alternative? If she isn’t given benefits should they both be in the street? Him taken into care (costing the taxpayer more money)?

You can call these people scroungers or insensible or whatever you like, but what is the actual alternative solution?

Obviously the ideal situation is that people exercise personal responsibility and don't create children, where we have to decide between which is the better of two bad outcomes. It is the same you see in all these posts so of us believe that we have responsibility for our actions, other believe that the state should mother us.

Yes. Once people realised they won't be paid money, they will alter their behaviour and only have children when financially secure.

It’s beyond my comprehension, why anybody comes on MN; and therefore must have the wherewithal to afford, operate and be able to write on a smart phone/tablet/laptop, then talks proudly about how they can work; but can’t comprehend that people with the more severe learning disabilities cannot come on MN, never mind work?

DD1 had a congenital brain abnormality to start with, has had concussion more times than I can remember and it’s widely accepted she’s suffered massive cognitive deterioration, before anybody tells me I don’t understand what @ForeverDelayedEpiphany has been through.

I believe we need to reduce the welfare state to protect people exactly like your daughter!

Why are people who are perfectly capable of some work, allowed to sit at home and do nothing? Imagine how much nicer our streets/ parks etc would be of everyone contributed. How much more productive people would be at work if you actually could see an increase on your living standards when we got a pay rise rather than it being taxed away.

Well mine didn’t become a teen parent themselves. He became an accountant who bought his first house at 24. He does have a cat though, but he funds it himself…

Be off with your sweeping generalisations. I couldn’t be more proud of my son. Not only is he successful excelling in his career, he is also a wholly good, caring man. And truth be told, I’m very proud of myself at having raised him to become the man that he his. To suggest that he should have been forcibly adopted is ridiculous.

Charge any benefits to the baby’s father. Debt to be deducted from earnings or his benefits.

My cousin got pregnant at 16. After a few years she went back to college to do A levels then a first class honours degree and has worked in a medical profession for 25 years.
What we need is to encourage aspiration in young single mothers not force them to have abortions or remove their child.

There's a middle ground isn't there? Between nothing and all expenses paid for years.
Better subsidised childcare provision for all is the obvious solution, like they have in lots of Europe.

Easy to act perfect on an anonymous website but I doubt you were always perfect and responsible when you were 15

I understand it would incentivise some to go into work and think further about their decisions. However, there will always be people who aren’t as brilliant virtuous and sensible as you when it comes to decision making. Shit happens.
What about a young woman who has never worked as she has been looking after her family and been supported by her husband/partner? She wants to escape an abusive marriage where she is not allowed to work and is kept inside? She can’t escape as there would be no financial help?
Its all well and good to simplify things and say it would get the dossers off the couch, but it is so much more nuanced.

No benefits equals the number of children born in these circumstances are drastically reduced. Those that are born go into care. The reduced numbers means it would be affordable.

The disincentive would mean there’d be far fewer of them.

Most of us managed not to get pregnant though.

I really wouldn’t want to live in such an inhumane and misogynistic society that threatens women with forced abortions, or forced removal of their newborns into the traumatising care system, because of their financial circumstances.

As a society we need more hope, compassion and aspiration not threats and shame.

This logic didn’t work for state-sanctioned murder did it. States that have the death penalty have not seen a reduction in crime.

All over the world people are giving birth on the streets, in refugee camps etc. Depsite dire outcomes and zero help, this will always happen. It will not reduce in the way you think it will.
It will increase homelessness, addiction and crime. It’s well studied that a better welfare system reduces these problems.
If we also take having children out of this, I mentioned how women would be disproportionately affected by this as they tend to be the stay at home partner/more likely to be stuck in a domestic abuse situation and not allowed to work etc. These women should have help when it comes to leaving.
How about a school leaver that can’t find work? They just don’t get any benefits? I don’t understand how you can’t see that the country would descend into chaos very rapidly.

Totally different people being targeted by the disincentive.

Most of those people you refer to have no NHS and free access to contraception.

I've seen enough people talking about taking drugs at that age, getting into trouble not getting jobs till they're in their twenties, having abortions etc and it's spoken about as if it was all just the follies of youth. Even people that commit crimes under 18 seem to get a pass.
But if someone actually gets pregnant and keeps their child they're the bad guy forever and should of known better? Because there's proof of what they did ?

I think it is tragic that any child grows up in poverty. Some cases can't be avoided as obviously people circumstances change, but I think the most tragic is for the kids whose parents choose to give them that life.

Ah so you agree that access state funded help improves outcomes for all? Glad we are on the same page!

I 100% support a free health service.

I 100% disagree with financial state benefits to support poor life choices. It’s irrational on every level.