ID cards to be introduced. What do you feel. ?

[Fishingboatbobbingnight]

I have worked in serious organised crime for two decades. This is one of the best bits of news I have read in a long while. I have also been involved in ‘small boat’ arrivals. The reason people will by pass several safe EU countries to get to the UK is ‘I can get lost if I don’t get asylum’ ‘UK has no ID cards’ . It’s a no brainer .. why why has it taken so long. ? If you want to have the services your country has to offer - through most of the world - from healthcare to the library- you need to show you are a bona-fida citizen. However , for some unfathomable reason , the flag waving right wingers are always the one to oppose ..is it because they are scared it will work and leave their thinly veiled racism floundering ?

Yes to ID cards = YANBU
No to ID cards = YABU

Meanwhile AI and facial recognition is being rolled out without any safeguards.

Yes, it should.

And there should be a centralised system for any name changes (including upon marriage or divorce) where anyone applying to change their name is checked against the crime database, and if they have any unspent convictions under their current name, tough shit, they're stuck with it. None of this deed poll nonsense.

My French husband can't believe that in the UK you can basically write on a piece of paper that you're changing your name and then just go and get a new passport in that name.

Also don't you need id for porn now too?.

It’s the law! My point is that if the Government decided to regulate a private industry and puts in an ID requirement, this is what they will ask for

The government is proposing to put all these together in a digital wallet, so this system will hold all the information they currently have about you in these systems and more in one place, making it a more attractive target for hackers. They are already talking about using it for employment and rent checks, which will add to the information they hold about you in this one database. It could easily be used to track everyday interactions such as paying bills, shopping and voting. After all, if we've got digital ID, why shouldn't it be used for age checks, proving eligibility to vote, etc.

The digital ID system will hold more information on you than any single system holds at the moment. As time goes on, it is likely to hold lots of information the government don't currently have access to at all. They don't currently know whether you voted in the last election. If your digital ID has to be scanned to prove your eligibility, they will know. And if your digital ID starts being used for age checks, they will know every time you buy alcohol or other age-restricted goods, or visit websites that require age checks.

Some 4 million immigrants are already forced to use digital eVisas. This system has been beset with problems, with authorised immigrants being stranded at airports when their eVisas failed, GPs wrongly rejecting credentials and refugees being unable to connect their passports to their eVisas, meaning they could not set up bank accounts or rent housing.

When ID cards were mandatory in the 1950s, some police officers abused their powers by arbitrarily demanding people produce their ID cards and rounding up and questioning girls in the West End of London who could not prove their identity. That was a long time ago, but even today police officers, and occasionally staff employed by the police, regularly access the Police National Computer illegally for unauthorised purposes.

Those kinds of issue may not worry you if they don't affect you, but they will certainly worry you if you are forced to carry a digital ID and experience similar issues. To expect a government digital ID system to be secure and not be vulnerable to this kind of problem is a triumph of hope over experience.

Banks should absolutely require a form of identification.

My point is, it’s not just public services and the State. It quickly becomes a private requirement to access services

If you’re a convicted criminal and the police ask who you are, your fingerprints and photo will show them who you really are. It’s none of anyone else’s business if you have a conviction.

Marriage certificates; possibly. I don’t know. Vicars don’t do any checks.

How do they check mothers only claim benefits for children born of them? Birth certificates.

How do you travel with minor children? Abroad? With a passport. If the children have different surnames then they carry a letter of permission from the other parent and the Immigration Officer might have a casual chat with the child about mum or dad. Mum or dad will then either carry on with their life or will then promptly post on here about how outrageous it is that anyone questioned their child and that the immigration officer was clearly overstepping and doesn’t know how to do their job properly.

We do take a lot on trust. But if you’re the sort that’s going to do dodgy stuff, then there’s always going to be a way around it that ID cards won’t stop.

Me too. I have a Spanish ID card that I use for ID purposes in Spain in the same way I use my passport or driving licence here.
It is useful that way.
What the Spanish ID cards don't do is stopping illegal immigration or illegal work in any way.

I suppose people who have grown up in countries which have ID cards will be confused why some people in the UK are against them.@XDownwiththissortofthingX does make a fair point about the track record in this country of pulling off any sort of government nationwide project, IT or otherwise, you only have to look at the absolute dogs bollocks they made of privatising utilities and the rail network , to understand the reticence.

So marriage certificates, birth certificates and passports all rely on your name and you saying who you say you are … which could be anything.

Before brexit, my Rome friend used to be able to fly to visit on hers so they were very useful to her. I think they're ok on the surface, we already have driving, passports, all ID, though prob would've rather they put it to the vote.

Which means if there’s ever an issue with your digital ID you lose access to ALL these services in one fell swoop.

Or what ?

I grew up in a country with ID cards and I am not against them, but I think this app is 1) going to cost a lot of money (how much did that covid app cost?), 2) going to be difficult to use for older people not used to smartphones and 3) will not achieve anything that any of the current forms of ID cannot achieve.

Maybe but I can see Starmer / Labour being keen to get it out there. I agree with you for the most part, although I want to know what control and access digital ID will grant. Joined up AI to bank accounts, state support, what about striking. We’ll see. Maybe the pro pp are right it’s just the same as a card.

I think it is long overdue. Should have been done years ago.

We do need something that can act as an acceptable form of ID for those that do not have a driving licence or a passport. Neither of which are compulsory documents. Not everyone drives or wants to, so not everyone has a driving licence. Not everyone has or needs a passport if they don't plan to travel internationally.

Something is needed.

I personally am in favour. I know there are plans to digitise passports (not sure when, but on the radar) so imagine you’d have some kind of Gov Wallet on your phone where you’d keep your ID, passport, driving license etc. Most other countries have ID cards.

@Fishingboatbobbingnight I agree with introduction of ID cards now. They perhaps weren't ideal in the past, but nowadays, they will prove to be effective against human trafficking and the slave trade that occurs across the English channel.

This sounds great. I live in a city with endless deliveroo drivers, none of while look like British citizens, all zooming around on illegal e-bikes. Bring in ID cards and if the police stop them, find no right to work, and are allowed to heavily fine any companies who’s food they are carrying this black economy will disappear overnight.

I saw a hilarious headline somewhere (possibly in the telegraph) that warned ID cards might force up delivery prices. As though clamping down on illegal employment is a bad thing!

‘Anyone’ doesn’t need to know if you have a criminal record.

Your criminal record is connected to your fingerprints, which is far less open to misidentification than an ID number. And which anyone who needs to know can access. It shouldn’t be available to anyone who just fancies having a look.

That is literally what happens if you get pulled over for a driving offence. You have to show your licence and insurance or take them to the police station the next day. Been like this forever.

Don't see why folk are getting their knickers in a twist. it's no different to holding a driving license or a passport. Most peoples mobiles hold more information about them than they would care to admit.

DDs German boyfriend said he could use his as a de facto passport for traveling within the EU. I was quite impressed and envious. Europeans all seem to have them.

I think they'd be great for adults like my disabled DD who has no driving license and who lives at home with all the bills in someone else's name!
And it's a faff collecting multiple forms of proof of ID even when you are the person whose name is on the water bill!

I had a police detective ex and had some funny responses when I was explaining what it meant that he was in the Major Crimes unit. "He only does rape and murder." No, that's not right. "He works on rape and murder." Not much better. Etc. 😆