To think the “self-made” narrative is a lie?

[ChirpyOpalHelper]

No one is really self-made. It’s family, luck, timing, health, connections. Yet we glorify people as though they pulled themselves up single-handedly. AIBU to think “self-made” is just a myth people tell to feel special?

My dad is truly self-made.
Started as a child in an orphanage during WW2, fought to be allowed to go to university on a full bursary. Met my mum but her family were against their marriage so they eloped and moved to another country (so zero family support with childcare etc).
Started working for a company at the lowest level, gradually made his way up to a high executive position and had a very comfortable life from his 40s. His progression at work was 100% deserved, no political moves, he was really good at his job and received several awards from client companies (best supplier relationship, this type of things).

There are definitely some who do it - but you are right, more often than not people who claim to be self made had a leg up from somewhere. Most people I know who are successful in there 30s come from wealthy families and have most certainly had help starting up their businesses or progressing in their careers.

Not a myth, it probably gets overused and certainly some people who consider themselves self-made might be being a bit disingenuous, but there are certainly others who have pulled themselves up by the boot straps and done it all themselves.

The disingenuous types remind me of Douglas Renholm in The IT Crowd: "When I started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a dream and 6 million pounds. Today I have a business empire the like of which the world has never seen the like of which. I hope it doesn't sound arrogant when I say that I am the greatest man in the world!"

Many people who are "self made" (or with inherited wealth Indeed) only get /stay wealthy due to the exploitation of others.

It's why I don't get people who think wealthy people are somehow ",better"

YABU.

The only two people I know that claim to be self made and who are now a multi millionaire and a billionaire started of in poverty. Genuine, real poverty, not relative poverty. They worked hard, were ruthless and probably had a little luck along the way as most of us do at some point. But any luck they had will have been related to what they were already doing and work that had already been put in. It didn’t come from nowhere.

It's a myth in the sense that of course we're all interdependent and only the occasional hermit in the wilderness manages alone. It's also a myth in the literal sense that it's the hero of the capitalist, individualist narrative. And it's a myth (meaning a falsehood) when, as often happens, people use it to imply they had no help when in fact they had money, family support, networks, opportunities others might not have.

However, it's also NOT a myth in the cases of people who have genuinely come from disadvantaged backgrounds and managed to achieve their goals in life against the odds.

For lots of people it is not a lie.

I heard someone in radio 4 inteview in Trumps first term say Trump was self made man as was his son - they inherited wealth and privilege.

Yeah, it’s a bit suspicious when multiple generations of the same family are “self-made”.

I think the playing field can never really be level, can it? Some people are naturally more intelligent or good looking (which can be a social advantage) than others, regardless of their parents income. Or just the time at which you’re born; someone up thread has already mentioned the decline in social mobility. That’s not to say that there aren’t people who do very well in
life in spite of their circumstances.

Thinking about this thread and David Beckham comes to mind.

I remember one of the Neville brothers saying to the papers that when they were all younger and starting out they'd all be out drinking and having fun but David would be home, practicing, kicking a ball.

Of course he didn't raise himself from childhood or not have coaching but there was something inside of him that made him persist, something that made him stand out from the crowd. With no connections, a working class background and teachers who asked him what he really wanted to do instead of being a footballer he had something in him that made him make it big.

Some people come from nothing and are self made on that sense. The majority have a safety net.

I'm with Arnie

Your user name reminds me of something @ChirpyOpalHelper .
Please do return!

ThreeWordUsername.

No previous posts. Yet again. It’s just another AI troll post folks.

I wouldn't go as far to say a myth, but certainly Very rare.
Be careful OP, I started a thread that was similar to yours a few weeks ago. A few nasty comments and accusations thrown my way

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5387599-in-thinking-that-progression-at-work-is-a-myth

Oh do one will you…what a load of deterministic bollocks

I for one have embraced my own agency and won’t have my ‘madeness’ minimised.

What does “talent” mean in a business context? Partly, IMO, it means courage, hard work, dedication, self belief, as well as curiosity, willingness to ask questions, plus persistence, persistence, persistence. Technical ability is often a really small component (in my experience). DH left school at 16, founded business that recently sold for £1bn (I might add, we haven’t been shareholders for some years!)

There are absolutely people who are self made but then there are people who just say it because it sounds good.

I remember reading an article about Deliciously Ella where she insisted her family background didn’t help with her success.

Must we had this same post every week?

I came from poverty, grew up in care, and had a baby at 17. Over 30 years later I am retired at 50, live in a beautiful house with no mortgage and have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life. I am probably the very definition of a ‘self-made’ millionaire.

However I never would have ‘made it’ without my workers who were educated by our schools and universities and kept healthy by our NHS. It was my staff who made me my money. Nor could I have done it without relying on our country’s infrastructure, roads, internet, postal systems, while being protected by our laws.

Very few people become wealthy entirely on their own.

Most self-made people work incredibly hard and take risks, but nobody can do it completely alone. Education, mentors, networks, timing, and societal infrastructure all play a role. It’s more accurate to say they’re self-made within a system that provides opportunities maybe?! But I would absolutely say people can be. My MIL was an example of this - born into complete poverty, no encouragement from anyone really just very little expected of her… ended up owning a very successful business that she started after seeing a gap in the market and working bloody hard for it to happen! Died a very wealthy woman. I think being driven and ambitious has a lot to do with it.

Absolutely this, every time.

I know plenty of people who started with nothing and are on £500k+ pa packages now living high life. They are intelligent and driven, they are self made.

It's a common belief of under achievers that people like this don't exist or got there purely by luck. It's comforting for them to believe in such rubbish, removes personal responsibility

You're showing your ignorance OP. There are plenty of people who are self made. Plenty who grew up in care with the bare minimum and yet came through.

I grew up, with a f who rejected the education of women and intentionally did everything he possibly could to scupper our chance of a life away from his control. Escaping, finding the self belief and a way to a university place, surviving on very little, ignoring the years of threats etc was no small thing.

My dad only went to primary school. Very poor family. He built a successful business. I think he was self made. I did very well academically and have a good career. I am not self made, had huge family support. So it all depends on my view.

It's as much to do with the economy and timing as to do with anything else. Those I know who were hugely successful that started with little wouldn't have achieved what they did had they been young adults 5 years before or after their initial rise to success.

A friend's dad - dirt poor, I mean we're talking walking to school with no shoes on. Who helped him? He sold his business for £100million - he was an arse but I think he deserves the credit for building quite a large successful business, from nothing! You keep pretending that some people don't do exceptionally well from nothing - but you're wrong. Some people do make a difference -I doubt that includes the ones who prefer to make excuses for anything and everything.