To think the “self-made” narrative is a lie?

[ChirpyOpalHelper]

No one is really self-made. It’s family, luck, timing, health, connections. Yet we glorify people as though they pulled themselves up single-handedly. AIBU to think “self-made” is just a myth people tell to feel special?

Nope. My husband is self made. Much more successful than conventional, university educated me. Through nothing but hard work, sacrifices and resilience. No family connections, support or even qualifications from school.

You’re missing the obvious thing that for luck and timing to have an impact. If you’re not coding the next big app/designing a magic ironing machine/creating a new drink/whatever then the luck of timing is irrelevant. To gain advantage from either of those things you’ve got to be doing certain things to start with.

What term would you to describe someone who has come from a background of poverty and adversity and is now considered successful?

OP what annoys you so much about people saying they were self-made? Why not get annoyed by people who got handed their "old money" on a plate?
You make your own luck and when you don't, you dust yourself off and you get back up again - and that's what we've done over and over again - we don't spend our lives moaning about our failures to all - we learn from them and move on.
I look at my dc's boyfriend - grew up in poverty, joined the army at 16 to relieve the financial burden on his single mum - works bloody hard, goes above and beyond and is doing brilliantly well - saying it's all down to luck is a bloody insult.

Yeah - this is well-known in historical/economic research. Used to be called ‘the myth of the self-made man’. Focus on entrepreneurship and related patterns over time and in geographical terms.

For example…

www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/first-industrialists/myth-of-the-selfmade-man/A2C17AB65E3EFAE68B95C701314687EE

I dont think its a lie, but i do think there are issues with the narrative.

One us people not acknowledging luck, particularly health, playing a part.

But also the idea that if ine person can do it, everyone can do it. Therefore no sympathy or support is needed. If one poverty stricken, disabled child can become a leading judge, they all can so no need for interventions or help, its your own fault you didn't succeed.
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There's usually family help/finance behind it, yes

I agree that it's disingenous to talk about self-made men who have parents who have always paid for tutoring, private school and given connections for work.

My grandfather was definitely a selfmade man. He grew up in poverty (think oatmeal for all meals, hand me down clothing that didn't fit etc.). He got a scholarship so that he could continue to study whereas my grandma started working at 14 years old. He studied hard (economics and spoke 4 languages) while working part time to help his family.

But I guess you can't say he was self made because without the scholarship he couldn't have gone to university besides being extremely intelligent. I wish I had inherited just a bit of his intelligence and stamina..

Luck plays a role, but not a large part IMO. Most babies are born without obvious health defects, and pre-natal screening means that old prima gravidas like me are pre-warned of the possibilities of a needy child. And I was 43 in 1999 when I gave birth for the only time.

But success started when I left the village I grew up in for a boarding school that offered a more varied education, and then went to a good university, and a bit later moved to London for work. Where I met a cute American, who I married. We moved to NYC, where I found work that interested me, and found a cheap flat, and I learned street skills. I am now back where I grew up but with a world of knowledge and culture and sophistication that I would never ever have acquired -- without the courage to explore. And that has an economic value.

My parents were not wealthy, we have no rolling estates; as kids, me and my DSis wore hand me downs or school uniform until we could afford accessories. I am profoundly sorry for the children whose parents conceived and birthed them thoughtlessly and then reared them carelessly. I really don't want to judge any more.

Not a lie, but obviously no-one lives in a vacuum and no two people have the same combination of luck, surroundings, and natural gifts. Try not to take it personally that some people do better than others, whether through hard work or the lottery of birth. Much better to focus more on improving your own life and finding happiness in what you do have.

YABU and I think you know exactly what “self-made” means, you’re just being a twit.

But op what do you have against people feeling special or being called self made? All of this depends on whether you are trying to’make it’ or whether you come home from work daily giving out about the people in the world who went the extra thousand miles, creating content or inventing, getting business loans, trying to get people interested or to invest etc. Someone said on here a while ago plenty of people say they could have done something but don’t do it- like the people who say they’ve a book in them. If you never write it you can’t give out about those who do

That's really interesting. I didn't realise the myth was pre-industrialist, but it makes sense if you think of folk tales. Jack and the Beanstalk. :)

Nobody lives in a vacuum. Those considered to be "self made" have always had external support in some shape or form. A degree of luck/right time and place is also inevitable. For every success story there will be plenty of failures who took a risk which didn't pay off. As a term I generally find it to be a self congratulatory load of shite. Interesting to consider the ratio of self made men to women we hear of too.

Depends what the business is? If it involves or depends on relationships with other people then someone who is good at that would succeed.

My dad is 100% self made. He left school at 15 with no qualifications. He only had one parent who never really worked and they lived in a rented flat with no inside toilet. He literally pulled himself up by the boot straps, realised he was good at selling, worked on market stalls, talked himself into a job in a department store, ended up running a department. Decided he wanted to earn more money and talked himself into a life insurance job. Worked nights to get business because he figured that people on night shifts didn’t get a chance to have appointments during the day, we didn’t see him as he was always out and he ended up the MD of a national finance company. He had no leg up, he had no money, he had no connections at all. He has been hugely successful but even now he’s 80 he’s a grafter, he doesn’t sit still and he doesn’t rest on his laurels.