In thinking that progression at work is a myth?

[Floogal]

Basically as I asked in the title. It seems that anyone wanting more money and interesting tasks at work can not really advance. Due in part to nepotism, cronyism and mostly (forgive my misandry) 'dead man's shoes'. More so if you are at the bottom. You feel cheated when the shop floor to top floor mantra is spouted.
Also it seems a double standard where you can't win. If you want progression and and get it you're seen as greedy or deluded. If you're content and don't want to progress, you're often viewed as lazy and unambitious.

Well possibly where you work, but it's a real sweeping statement. Lots of people are promoted on ability rather than nepotism.

I can’t say this has been my experience no.

I think you maybe just need to find a nicer place to work.

Statistics show it can be for women with children and that’s been my experience.

Loads of opportunities for progression at my work if your face fits.

Always exceptions to the rule but when I’ve been in companies where a son is brought in, their meteoric rise isn’t usually reflective of their ability.

Totally depends on where you work.

I’ve progressed in my career and it’s been entirely due to (1) ability to do the job (2) hitting my targets and (3) being affable and building good relationships with colleagues. None of my progression has been ‘dead mans shoes’ - I’ve never replaced anyone.

I also work in a profession where you have to start on the “shop floor” - it’s not possible to progress without doing so and “serving time”
in those roles.

I think there are windows and yes, it's all rigged.

Things like sex, age, appearance all factor into it and it's not a level playing field

Not only that, but people who themselves climbed up from the bottom, love to pull the ladder up after them, and expect the hires they make under then to tick boxes they themselves never had to tick on their way up!

But they'll be quick to use themselves as an example of "working up with just hard work" despite the fact that if you applied to interview with them and used their past CVs, you wouldn't even be short listed!

Maybe I've been lucky, but that hasn't been my experience at all, ever.

Companies make mistakes, or people don't work out in certain roles, but I've genuinely never seen anyone get/keep an important job/promotion that they're awful at.

I'm sure it happens, but I expect it's a minority.

What I have seen is a lot of people who don't have the ability or won't put the effort in, assume that everyone that gets promoted above them has only got to where they are because 'their face fits'.

I think you are projecting here based on your own workplace.

In my experience talented people have been able to progress, often very quickly - and most organisations have been quite meritocratic in this way.

The places I have worked which are most closed off were actually minimum wage type jobs, where it was all little power dominions and mates supporting each other, so if you weren’t in the ‘in’ crowd that was it.

No I do not agree

Over my career, I moreI trebled my salary

I changed departments several times, took on extra responsibility, learnt new skills, took on extra work, on call, shift work

I also moved to work in new locations several times

I worked for a huge company & there was lots of scope for progression

Eg
Charity fund raising
Volunteer days
Employee representative
Opportunity to complete qualifications
Access to training on & off site
Provide training to new starters
Provide an over view to visitors
Secondment opportunities
Shared & communicated info to other departments

However, some people are happy to plod along & do the same job, with a low level of responsibility

Most organisations are triangles with less space at the top so progression can’t be guaranteed

moving is a better route to progression

Not my experience. I started on £14k + £200 bonus in 2012 and now earn £75k + £15-20k bonus. On third mat leave atm too.

Whilst I am very capable at my job, I have never underestimated the importance of my profile and have worked very hard to make sure the right people know who I am. I’ve always been open to new opportunities within the organisation which has also helped as I’ve done sideways moves and secondments in addition to promotions.

@childofthe607080s and @Countessy
The triangle model fits what I mean by dead man's shoes. Often the roles simply aren't there and don't just get created. It seems you have to wait for someone higher up to retire, get promoted or just leave.

Yep, particularly if you are competent in your existing role, they will want to keep you there. They pay lip service to 'promotion within' and any 'learning and development' is window dressing to look good meanwhile the content won't prepare you for the reality.
There have been a few that have gone up through the ranks but usually through ruthlessness or relationships. The pay doesn't reflect the shit thrown at you either. Retail is shit.

Your singular experience doesnt apply to everyone. Most professional roles senior people got there by advancing through the ranks. Like me.

This is just another version of “the system Is rigged for rich people” never ending thread you keep posting. Give over with the broken record.

@MidnightPatrol and @cobrakaieaglefang . Yes retail is shit and very clinky clicky. You can only get anywhere if you're part of the boss's smoking gang

I think it depends on your area of work. I work in a big government department. I was on maternity within my first year of working there too. But I worked my ass off, got a good reputation and completed a degree in my own time outside of work - my salary is now close to double what it was 3 years ago. And I’m new to the area so no ‘jobs for the boys’ relationship to build on.
If that’s how it feels in your area maybe it’s time to look for a move?

Are you able to share more about your field?

I've only really got experience of my own industry (law) but you definitely can and do progress if you have the ability and you are willing to work for it. I've hit a ceiling i think as a salaried partner because I'm good at the technical lawyer and managing people but hopeless at finding and winning new business which is essential for an equity partner. That's ok, where I have got to suits me.

But there are lots of lawyers who just coast, work contracted hours only and don't seem to actually be interested in the job or becoming better at practising the law or going the extra mile to give the clients a stellar service. They moan and moan about not being promoted as if they should get it just for "time served". It's really not like that.

I think you've been very lucky. I work somewhere where the vast majority of internal promotions are well deserved. But there is still a tiny minority of people who are a bit shit and seem to get promoted even though everyone knows they are shit, it's almost like they have been promoted to keep them out of trouble. Then there are the people who are very ambitious who spend all their time managing upwards and only do things that make themselves look good but actually are lazy and don't give a shit about doing a good job and leave a trail of destruction in their wake, although they tend to get caught out eventually. So (she says tongue in cheek) if you've never seen it, is it because you're the one being promoted undeservedly?

Most progression relies on reputation. To get a good reputation you have to do good work but people also need to know that you do good work. So you do need to be good at subtly promoting yourself and building networks otherwise you end up slaving away with noone knowing about it. Relying on your manager or your appraisal process to do that is also a bit of a mistake in most workplaces.

I think it heavily depends on your job. Some jobs have a big hierarchy and progression is fairly straightforward with specific targets to hit to progress. I think this is the case to some extent with what I do, however I have only been able to get promotions and pay increases by moving. Whenever I have felt ready for a promotion and not offered it, I started interviewing elsewhere, said I was on a higher salary than I was actually on (~30k more each time) with the responsibilities I felt I could do and interviewed for THAT job. I think this is easier to do in tech however, bc the interview is all based on ability, so you demonstrate that ability in the technical part of that interview or you dont and you get the job based on that.

I work for the Education department, but non teaching. I have managed 2 promotions in the 3 years I’ve been there, and as I said that includes a years Mat leave, and I can think of loads of people who have moved around/up in that time too. There are opportunities in the right sector I think, it’s just hard to see when you’re stuck somewhere with no real prospects/a ‘jobs for the boys’ culture.

Absolutely not. I worked my way up from very junior to director level, no nepotism or cronyism involved, I just worked for a really good company that invested heavily in its employees (and worked my ass off!)
I now own my own business and invest a huge amount of money in staff training and development. I have one director that started with me as a very junior member of staff and have promoted two people into new roles in the last 6 months. There are decent companies to work for and if you don’t work at one? Look to leave.