to think we're all being manipulated

[newbluesofa]

I'm going to get flamed by reform voters here, and I think it'll come off as thinking I'm smarter than everyone but I genuinely don't, which is why I'm so confused by this.

To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked.

I don't think we should have unregulated immigration, there are issues that need to be addressed. But there's a difference between sensibly discussing immigration from an economic point, and the nasty hate and vitriol that's everywhere now. It is what they WANT. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves, no one is looking up at the people with the real power and money.

One example, newspapers describing immigrants as 'fighting age men'. 'Fighting' is not an age. Young men could also be fit, healthy, and able to work and contribute. They say 'fighting age' to scaremonger and promote anti immigrant rhetoric, and it works as people parrot the line.

It's always been the way that the ruling class look for ways to keep the masses infighting. Honestly I lose respect at anyone that falls for it. I don't get how it isn't so obvious to others, how can you not see you're being played?

I disagree with OP.

"To me, it is incredibly obvious that we are being completely manipulated by politicians and the media. They want us to blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly. And it's worked."

My view is that it is incredibly obvious that some politicians and people in the mainstream media, in the alternative / social media and citizen journalism are trying to manipulate us so we blame immigrants and people who claim benefits for their failing to run the country properly.

Meanwhile it is also incredibly obvious that some politicians and people in the mainstream media and in the alternative / social media and citizen journalism are trying to manipulate us so we believe that uncontrolled immigration from Islamic countries doesn't put pressure on house prices, rents or NHS waiting lists in any way at all, and there is no chance whatsoever that we will ever be muslim majority country or have sharia law in any form, irrespective of how many immigrants come here and no matter how high their birth rate is compared to the existing population.

So the boating incoming migrants are from Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Eritrea, and I forget the other one... According to gov stats... Largely men..

I mean... Hard one... I've just googled Eritrea - dictatorship apparently...

In some ways I think we are responsible so should take some of them, in others, I wouldn't trust easily some of them given the regimes they've come from. Obviously some will be lovely. It's really difficult. I certainly think the crossing can be dangerous and worry about the safety aspect. Also, re trauma, it's not easy to find an interpreter for therapy. The NHS has little therapy anyway let alone for a traumatised young person who can't speak English and has seen unspeakable things.

I think it's important to be aware and maybe guard against a polarised debate but in reality lots of people don't...

Yes.

They want us to kick down, not up. Same as it ever was.

We are just cattle. We have no choice in life. It’s all theatre. But people fall for it time and again, Becuase the reality that you mean nothing, your life is meaningless is quite a scary thing to comprehend and if we realised we were nothing, and that we actually had nothing to lose, we might not be so compliant.

So the powerful make us argue among ourselves, make us think we have a choice by “voting” for political parities that are all the same and financed by the same few people, make us die in wars to make them money.

It’s all such a joke.

Don’t forget that the crossing is from France. It is not dangerous in calm weather - apart from the danger caused by the people traffickers overloading or extra people storming the boats.

We are enabling the people traffickers to make their vast profits by giving the travellers the incentive of at least several years in a warm dry hotel all food and needs catered for. Including taxis to free medical care as we hear today.

Of course mismanagement has had a huge impact on our public services.

In an ideal world we’d be able to support not only the people who already live here but immigrants too.

But that’s not reality.

The pp’s point is that adding millions more people to an already failing system is simply not possible.

There is a problem with immigration yes, but it’s blown way out of proportion and diverting people’s attention from the real problem which is the mass decline health services, education, policing etc… and the general quality of life of British people.
It is easy to blame immigrants because they are an easy target because it’s much harder to fix the bigger problems like education and nhs. Plus it’s a vote winner. Just like VAT on private schools won votes for Labour.

😁

Of course and there are very obvious prodders on social media too

We have a politician pointing to nazi graffiti statements that its unacceptable and will be cleaned up cue a lot of infighting about migration rapists etc all the buzz words someone suggests that all the disgusting graffiti should be cleaned up not just one piece and is told "thanks for volunteering" (charming)

then there is the statement that all the local shops and service would GROUND TO A HALT without migrants the question is posed what do you think born British people are doing if they are not working (small town not a lot of migrants living here because we are SMALL) states its disingenuous to suggest the NHS will simply stop working and shops will close (the one they named is actually full of born British staff?) They then go onto say that they are scaremongering

the response was laughable apparently people who have been born here whose great grandparents were immigrants are immigrants And therfore the whole country will be bought to a standstill if they downed tools

Im an immigrant and didn't even know it

I remember a few years ago Climate change was almost at the forefront of everything and we were getting really scared about it. And then suddenly everyone was talking about immigrants and no one was talking about Climate change any more.

I remember hearing Trump talking about Russia influencing the US elections (at his first election, never mind his second) and thinking what is he on about! Conspiracy theories type stuff.

Now it seems very obvious that billionaire businessmen and politicians are using social media to mess with everyone everywhere, change opinions, stir things up etc. The WOKE thing - went so far so fast and then a big backlash. We see the links of Elon Musk making donations and interfering in the politics of multiple countries that are not his own. God only knows what Russia and China are doing.

I think there is so much unrest now that a WW3 and climate disaster feels imminent. It feels like we're getting closer and closer to both.
The money will slide in one direction for so long, until a very tiny minority have everything and the masses have very very little.
Will there then be a revolution or will people be too brainwashed to do anything about it?
Does every generation feel like this or is it definitely worse right now?

Actually I think you’ve nailed it. I don’t blame the immigrants - why wouldn’t they take the golden opportunities offered to them by our government (using our money)? I do t want them here but it is the fault of the government who gave failed to secure our borders or manage immigration effectively for years. There is the issue of vast student visa scams and other means by which the government seems to prioritise anyone except the majority of British citizens.

We HAVE to be able to discuss this though - I think the government are waking up to that fact by their reaction to Reform. OP is just part of the problem by trying to shut down conversation.

Let’s look at the area I used to live in, used to because it was becoming awful to live there.

1 massive influx of immigrants, only wanted to stick to their own communities. No intention to integrate. Buying up houses, people who had lived there decades suddenly very isolated as friendly neighbours replaced by people who didn’t want to mix outside their communities
2.Shops and hospitality businesses shut down as their customers moved out the area and replaced by shops run by and aimed at new imigrants large parts of local supermarkets also adapted to serve the new customers
3.one of my sons classes had no other English speaker in it. Again the kids only stuck to thrr er or own communities, excluding anyone else
4.long established local traditions/remeberance events poorly attended by new arrivals in area - stoped or heavily scaled back
5.gangs of men hanging around felt very intimidating esp outside and around the migrant hotels
6 inability to speak English meant you couldn’t get to know anyone new not that they wanted to communicate with anyone outside their community.
7.practices like buying up the houses round the best school and passing them round community members to rent to get their kids in, then the next year doing the same. Meant no “local” kids could get in.

8.Knife crime shot up, usually aimed at white boys, the perpetrators generally from different background. Rapes increased

It became awful and felt unsafe, so we took our son out of school and moved hundreds of miles away. So yes I have been personally affected by migrants and the push to multiculturalism.

Yet people still think Farage is some sort of solution !

I agree. The media’s preoccupation with immigration is distracting from the real issues which is a crumbling NHS, a broken education system, unaffordable housing and expensive food prices. Plus while we are blaming immigrants we are not blaming inept politicians, unaccountable civil servants or billionaires avoiding tax.

This is another thread about politics where people will argue, finger point at each other rather than have a meaningful, constructive discussion where both sides are arguing willing to hear other sides concerns and learn something. Every is so clever and knows better than others.

Tale as old as time

If that was the case, why did they hugely under report the latest protest in London?

He's a populist. It's working.

I think assuming everyone is being manipulated is a bit much. People can make up their own minds. People are tired with how the country is being run and are looking for ways to show their dissatisfaction without the risk of being arrested. Rightly or wrongly that is what is happening.

Still waiting for the promised Brexit benefits such as :
Reduction in immigration
Money for the NHS ( £ 350 million a week )
We wouldn’t leave the single market
Turkey is about to join the EU and ‘ they’ll all come over here ‘
etc etc .
Still at least our rivers and seas are nice and clean now …
Brexit voters were told they were being scammed …

Resources aren't that scarce. They're just being hoarded by the few.

Politicians on all sides are causing this break down of society. Its the left and the right and driven by people who make money from it.

I hate the way politicians look down at voters and the way we are treated by them. They all think they are elite and special but most of them are thieves, scammers and liars. how do they manage to do what they do? MONEY... bribes - oh its not called bribes now its called funding.

Politicians all over the world have manipulated themselves more power over the years and now they are greedy and want more.

" People can make up their own minds" except that's a bit more difficult when they only read newspapers with this rhetoric, watch similarly biased news channels and their social media feed reflects their preferences back at them. They're only seeing one side, a lot of which is misinformation.

So sorry to read this, it’s so sad that this has been forced on us. However, according to the OP (based on a reply they made to my first comment), anyone not embracing these cultural changes must be xenophobic. It’s hard to deal with people who have this attitude.

Exactly. It's not the immigrants. They just like to make us think if the immigrants go away, things are peachy.

People who voted for Brexit the forget how it works the other way too, and now they're standing in longer queues at airports, or their children won't be able to go abroad and work in the EU as easily etc. Guess what? Maybe you should have thought about this before you decided that Brexir easily solves things.

Define immigrants too... does it include people of the non-white origin whose ancestors or previous generations weren't born here, but their children are citizens... do they get turfed out too? If my birth father was from Hong Kong but I am a British born citizen, does that mean I'm not welcome here?

It has implications for everyone. It's scary times.