To reject trainee surgeon?

[RunningThroughMyHead]

My young child is on the wait list for eye surgery. It’s a complex surgery with risks of blindness or other permanent eye issues if not done correctly. These risks have been explained to us but the benefits outweigh the risks.

My husband took him to the last appointment and the surgeon explained that a student surgeon may undertake all or part of the surgery under his supervision. My husband nodded along as far as I can tell.

Whilst I fully understand that healthcare professionals need to practice, perhaps selfishly, I don’t want my son practiced on. I wouldn’t forgive myself if something happened and I want someone well experienced to do the full surgery.

AIBU to request/insist on this?

Because this is more like turning the band 6 midwife away and saying you only want the band 8 consultant midwife.

A registrar is a fully qualified surgeon with many years of experience. As I would hope you would know. Comparing them to a medical student or student midwife is ridiculous.

The UK training scheme is very long compared to most countries - up to 15 years in the UK, vs 2-4 years in the US, for example.

I have asked but the OP ignored me.

Yes it will be a registrar closely supervised and not a student. You can choose a specific surgeon if you go privately. Your son will be fine very safe. Would rather have a registrar than a Professor of Opthamology put it that way.

They don't let trainees loose on complex or risky cases until and unless they are extremely competent. It may be that the attending surgeon has them just watch, they may take a turn having a look down an instrument, or holding some tissue out of the way while the senior surgeon does the bit that needs the most skill. I tend to be of the opinion that supervised students tend to be the most carefully managed surgeries (I had a C section delivery that was mainly performed by a surgeon for whom it was their first delivery!) but I believe you can refuse the student. Have you got a phone number for the registrar or the consultant's secretary - why not give them a ring and ask to talk it through?

Quoting you because where you said the OP "only wants the surgeon with Mr in front of their name" I feel you share the common misconception that only consultants are qualified for the title "Mr". Actually the person OP has misunderstood to be a "student" is also a qualified surgeon (registrar) who has passed their examinations, is a member of the college, and is referred to as Mr/Ms etc. So just correcting that common misconception. If a "Mr" performing the operation is what she wants, it's what she already has.

"Trainee" in this context doesn't mean someone who isn't a qualified surgeon. They've actually replaced the term recently with "resident" because "trainee" is confusing/misleading for the public about how qualified registrars are.

Scrub nurse here.
the doctor doing the surgery eill
be very experienced and under the direct supervision of a consultant the entire time, working under very tight restrictions and directions. This is the case for almost all operating theatres under the nhs. Don’t worry, your child will be well cared for and the scrub nurse will be keeping a beady eye on them all. Please speak to them again if you are still worrying, they are there to answer your questions and you can ask again before you sign your consent form.

Of course you can ask, they may not be able to accommodate your request though.

The NHS also allows you to seek a second opinion. I’ve had several brain surgeries and I’m aware of people who’ve changed surgeons because they didn’t connect with the first surgeon.

Some surgeries are very delicate and you have to have trust.

Why are people being so passive aggressive? It’s her son, some people on here get upset if their son gets a detention for smacking someone and then think a non medically trained person shouldn’t query who is operating on her son under general anaesthetic ffs? I think the best thing would be to call and ask to speak to the surgeon and ascertain the facts before you get more upset. It may be a surgeon (like you I’m not sure of the correct term) who has years of experience already but just need so many operations to be considered qualified etc. My daughter had a surgeon that was a billion years old operating on her tear ducts and he caught the back of her throat which caused some serious issues. I suppose what I’m saying is that experience doesn’t necessarily equate to competence. Get the facts and take it from there. Good luck x

I absolutely understand your concern, and would be worried in your position.

But, as already stated, not a trainee.
The supervising surgeon is effectively the one operating, he will ensure everything goes to plan. If not, he will carry the most responsibility.

The only way around this, is to go private. In the days I had company health insurance, I always had the top people. Alas.

I would 100% clarify and ensure that I understand the level of experience of the doctor performing the surgery. If you are not comfortable, politely ask for someone more qualified.

It's completely reasonable to want to minimise the risk of error with complex surgery.

So did I!

I don’t think you can dictate who does surgery unless you are paying for it. Also you will have no idea as you won’t be in the operating theatre. Either you trust the team or you don’t. If you do, you accept their judgement. If you don’t, you will have to fund the surgery privately.

It doesn’t really matter, and if is specialised surgery it would be quite outing.

Currently, within the NHS, trainee surgeons from abroad often have similar levels of experience as new NHS Consultants, I have worked in cardio thoracic theatres where specialist registrars are the lead surgeon (under supervision), how will they become Consultants otherwise

The supervised'students' I had practice on me had been senior resident surgeons for numerous years and had a lot of experience. The one surgery I had that was more worrying was the top consultant trying out a completely new surgery on me. Bless him he was a wonderful man, life saver but it was a total experiment encouraged by the junior doctors all of whom are highly qualified.
I think having a supervised surgery by a senior on a junior is even safer in some ways as two lots of very qualified doctors working in your child. If the consultant has any doubts he will take over.
People saying about signing . You had to sign for any surgery anyway . I have lots of copies of surgery consent forms.

Who's children would you want the surgeon to practice on before doing your child's operation?

Third world people who have no other option and the trainee is better than nothing at all.

All those people saying you can’t pick your surgeon that’s not true . I chose mine as he was recommended to me by another doctor who I trusted and told me about him . I rang my gp and they spoke to his secretary and a few months later I’d had my op

This response nailed it.

If you want to choose your surgeon you go private. If not, be a bit more grateful.

Would be a pre reg…so, someone just about to qualify, how can the optometrist and ophthalmologist become so, without performing their skills?

As others said they wouldn't let someone do this if they were not qualified. Plus they will be watched like a hawk throughout the whole thing. If this person is newly qualified they will be super careful, trained recently in latest surgical technique and will not be cocky and arrogant about the whole procedure. I make this last point having had 2 bodged surgeries in my life (neither of which were complicated) both of which were by highly qualified consultants who were either over confident or just didn't give a crap. Not sure which. Throughout my hospital care the younger less qualified doctors always gave me better information, listened and responded to my concerns in a non patronising way....unlike their more experienced colleagues! Who just fobbed me off and made me feel like I was wasting their time by even being there. I would go for the newly qualified person you will probably have a better experience.

I think this post wins the prize for being the least helpful and sympathetic. @RunningThroughMyHead has every right to feel as she does and l think most parents would be feeling the same. Most of us are not medical experts and it is very easy to get confused as the terminology seems change on a regular basis. It is one thing to agree to a slightly less experienced surgeon when undergoing an operation oneself but it is natural to have extra concerns when it comes to your child, especially when the operation carries significant risks. However, we have to trust the doctors in the end and l am sure that they would only let someone who really knows what they are doing operate on a child. I hope the operation is a complete success, @RunningThroughMyHead.

I think you should ask for further guidance on this. It’s reasonable to question what your husband was told-you weren’t there to voice your concerns. It may be that, after you have asked for more information , you feel happier to make a decision.

They won’t be a student!!!! Ffs.