To reject trainee surgeon?

[RunningThroughMyHead]

My young child is on the wait list for eye surgery. It’s a complex surgery with risks of blindness or other permanent eye issues if not done correctly. These risks have been explained to us but the benefits outweigh the risks.

My husband took him to the last appointment and the surgeon explained that a student surgeon may undertake all or part of the surgery under his supervision. My husband nodded along as far as I can tell.

Whilst I fully understand that healthcare professionals need to practice, perhaps selfishly, I don’t want my son practiced on. I wouldn’t forgive myself if something happened and I want someone well experienced to do the full surgery.

AIBU to request/insist on this?

If this was in America I would guess it would be a 4th or 5th year resident who the surgeon has 100% faith in and the same applies to england. These doctors will spend hours and hours in a skills label, hours training and observing surgery and would have to be able to show they know that surgery from start to finish.

I find it sad that so many women feel like they have to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, to the NHS in this case, in a way that I don't think men do.

If more of us were just disagreeable and advocated for our rights more, and unafraid of being seen as difficult, I think women would be in a better position in society today.

My DC had a complicated nine hour operation when he was six months old. I don’t know who did it. I met with the anaesthetist and knew who was leading it, but I assume the lead surgeon who we entrusted with our son’s care might have used someone junior to him under his supervision as it’s an uncommon operation and would be good experience, but I 100% trusted our surgeon to make that decision. If you don’t, perhaps you need to find another surgeon (which might mean going private, I’m not sure how it works!).

But if we were all selfish no-one would ever become a professional doctor or nurse. So it's a bit of tricky one to weigh up

I don't think this is anything to do with women. It's about a male child in this instance.
If everyone tried to insist that they wanted a Consultant, there would be not more qualified Consultants in 20 years and then what would these people do?
In the NHS you won't get a choice as to whether you have a Consultant or a very experienced Ophthalmic Specialist performing the surgery. If you want to insist on a Consultant, you would need to pay them privately.

I don’t blame you. I wouldn't either and I work for the NHS in a clinical role.

My SIL is a “trainee” ophthalmologist. She becomes a consultant next year. She’s done many of these but is still considered “student” until she is a consultant.

Hi OP

ask them, ask their qualifications/what grade they are and when they last did the operation.

I do not blame you for wanting to be sure, they are our babies after all

A trainee surgeon will have completed their medical degree 5yrs+two yrs as a house officer and now be undertaking the specialist training, he will probably already be a registrar, so he's/she's probably at least 9 yrs into training towards becoming a consultant plus with a Sr Consultant overseeing them. I would allow it, two for one deal xx

I suspect you may get better treatment in a teaching environment - diligent students highly supervised by the best doctors, no slacking, no shortcuts.

Just be grateful that Bashar al-Assad won't be doing it.

He was an eye surgeon before going back to Syria to lead his family's frightful, repressive and corrupt regime.

Pay for it, if that's your requirements.
I've had eye surgery done by a "trainee." It's hardly a first year apprentice. It's a highly qualified person, who is knowledgeable and skilled. They are under the supervision of the senior surgeon.

The consultants often don’t do the surgery, that’s the point you’re missing/refusing to accept. It’s not Grey’s Anatomy where all the senior people do every tiny little surgery.

I have read some of these replies and I’m not sure why it’s such a controversial topic. I’m a nurse & a midwife, when I was training to be a midwife I had to deliver 40 babies to qualify and people did and can decline a student. You are within your right to call the consultants secretary and not consent to a student. Yes you can’t pick your surgeon but you do have a say in regards to students. I’ve even seen student anaesthetic doctors get declined to do the procedure. The likely hood is this is a very highly trained doctor but if you are worried you should speak to them.

A trainee surgeon might be one operation away from being on their own.

A qualified surgeon might have been a trainee surgeon on their last operation.

if you want a better choice, pay for private.

The difference is that student midwives are students. Resident/SAS doctors are doctors. There’s no such thing as a student anaesthetist.

Probably a young lad on work experience for the week.

Contrite!!!???
What are you on about?

I think, really, this is stating facts not "being rude". It is not the answer you want but your previous comments do imply you think there is a level of entitlement to choice which there isn't, so it comes over as you making wrong assumptions. The issue of choosing not to have a particular doc because of some personal matter with them is different. In this case, you don't like the idea of this one, whom you haven't met, because you have the idea that they are inexperienced. The NHS can't work like that. They can't say "you get the big shot because you made a fuss". There is no room for that sense of entitlement. As others have said, you get that if you go private. Again, as others have said, you're not going to get some bumbling amateur. They chose this profession and this specialty and have worked hard for years to be able to care for patients.

I do this all the time supervising trainees, including during life and limb trauma procedures.

The analogy I use is that when you go on holiday there will be a pilot and co-pilot flying the plane. You would be completely unaware whether all, part, or none of the flight was carried out by the copilot. If you refused to have a copilot flying the plane, youbhave some options, negotiate a particular pilot, which may take longer before you go on your flight, if even possible, dont fly at all, or, charter a private flight.

Not in the UK she isnt.

Students are at medical school.

Trainees are qualified doctors, with a medical degree working toward a CCT and consultant post, but they are not students.

Yabu but I do totally get why.

But as various others have explained, your interpretation is flawed.

But as a mum you are entitled to worry and want the best for your child. So talk to the consultant, ask the questions, make sure you are fully informed before you consent.

You can absolutely refuse the the less skilled surgeon but honestly, I think you should. To offer a RL example...It was a Junior Doctor as they were then who diagnosed dd after several more se for and allegedly experienced doctors had dismissed me. He took the time to listen to me, really look at dd and assess her. He had a vested interest because he was less experienced to get it right. Had we refuaed his involvement and insisted on the more senior ones she would be dead.

Absolutely get someone experienced!!! My ex was a surgeon and in his early career he basically killed some people due to his lack of experience. And horrifyingly, the surgeons refer to this as 'boxing' someone.

As pp have stated, this will not be a trainee student, this will be someone with extensive surgical experience and knowledge and who will be supervised by a senior colleague while conducting the operation. I can completely understand your apprehension though, especially given that it’s complex operation. See ifyou can speak to the surgeon themself (and trainee) so they can reassure or concede that the senior surgeon should do it. It sounds however like they feel the junior is more than capable.

Nothing wrong l would certainly feel the same as you, it's a very serious operation and l would want someone well qualified.
Good luck for a successful outcome.