School residential vegetarian/vegan only

[vgp1234]

My child had really been looking forward to their year 6 residential, but a new head has joined and had changed the format somewhat.

They have now booked a Sustainability Centre in Hampshire, which only caters for vegetarians and vegans. My child is not a vegetarian or vegan, and across the cohort of year 5 and 6 only one child is vegetarian.

While I appreciate that there is a view that they can go 5 days without meat and they should just suck it up, I find it incredibly frustrating that you would not ask a vegetarian or vegan child to suck it up and eat meat for 5 days. So I don't understand why we do not treat both dietary preferences with equal measure.

The new head is very keen on government guidance, and has changed our lunch menu to comply with the current guidance for school lunches which is that 3 days should include meat or fish (previously we had a meat and vegetarian/vegan option every day). However it seems this guidance only applies on the school site, so you can disregard it at a residential. While they are within their rights to do this, it does seem like quite a contradiction.

I have tried speaking to the Sustainability centre directly but they were very inflexible and just stated it is a against their ethos (may I add that they also offer a day trip at a cost to visit a working farm, who rear animals for meat, so their ethos does not run all that deep). This really goes against my ethos as not only do I think you should treat all groups equally, I can't help but feel that this is forcing their ideas on children verses allowing them free choice and the ability to hear both viewpoints (meat is unsustainable/sustainable) and make their own decision.

In all honesty I'm quite perplexed as to why the school choose the venue when it would clearly be controversial, as this is quite a personal choice for parents and the cohort has so few in it that have this dietary preference.

I'm sure some people will not agree with me, and I am open to your opinions as I'm a big believer in hearing both sides of the argument and our ability to think critically for ourselves and not be told what to think (I want this for my child too).

I do plan to send the school an email initially and request that they provide a rounded menu including meat. But I'd really appreciate any advice on how to word this appropriately as I'm quite upset by it, and I'd prefer to send a well worded email than an emotional one.

You are being utterly ridiculous if you believe a vegetarian/vegan being forced to eat meat is the same as a meat eater being forced to eat vegetarian food.

Obviously, your child already eats a large quantity of vegetarian food. A vegetarian/vegan is totally against the killing of animals for food and would probably feel or be sick if forced to eat dead flesh.

I can't believe you don't see the difference!

Well, one doesn't discuss this at mealtimes. And if you are vegetarian that is fine by me, I have been vegetarian in the past. But to make the world entirely vegetarian or vegan is catastrophic both for domestic animals since most would have to be killed as being of no use, and most cannot survive outside of domestication (e.g. domestic sheep need shearing) and for the natural world in general for we would have to severely restrict the bird and insect population (indeed, we already have!) to make sure that crops survived to feed us. The entire landscape would change as well since all available land would be used for crops, but marginal land (where sheep graze, for example) would turn to scrub because it is useless for arable crops. Also, since we would not be using e.g. wool or leather, large tracts would need to grow cotton and flax and there would need to be an increase in petro-chemical industries to produce synthetics.

It is possible to buy lactose free cheese these days, but there are also cheeses that are naturally low in lactose as well.

There are a lot of people proving the point that eating a meat based diet does absolutely nothing for cognitive function, on here.

They are also proving that it’s not vegans and veggies who are the snowflakes that get triggered by other people’s diets.

I can make lots of assumptions about the views this person has…

As long as it’s not “weird” food then fine. It’s cheap and healthy and tasty food.

Have you asked for a sample menu?

Id expect things like:

jacket potato, cheese, baked beans and salad

quiche or spanish omelette with salad and crusty bread

tomato and vegetable pasta with grated cheese

bean chilli with rice and tortilla chips

stirfry Chinese veg with egg noodles or egg fried rice

vegetable curry with chick peas, naan and rice and yoghurt dip

veggie burger and chips

macaroni cheese and vegetables

I’d love to get a source for that, if you don’t mind? It’s just that I’ve spent the last ten years of my life researching this and there are some significant flaws in the reasoning there that the author(s) should be aware of.

I doubt it is, especially when catering for lots of children.

I’m genuinely not trying to be provocative here, because I appreciate it must be incredibly difficult. But…

…those posters with ND kids who will only eat meat, or hula hoops, or white bread. How did they learn of the existence of those things in the first place? Were you offering carrot sticks and hummus, wholemeal bread, etc, and in desperation after they would not eat a morsel try the UPF alternatives? Or is it more a case that they always had a wide variety and gradually rejected everything except a few safe foods?

Genuinely trying to learn!

It’s no harder to cook a load of eggs, lentils, paneer, etc etc than it is to do mince, chicken, or whatever.

Prepare to be surprised and amazed then

lack of protein isn’t really a thing in the uk. Lack of veggies and fibre is. Even with lots of people having veggie, vegan or low meat diets

This thread makes me wonder whether what a lot of parents perceive as their kids’ attitudes to the necessity and normativity of meat aren’t actually the parents’ own projections . . .

My son isn't ND but his bowel doesn't work correctly which means he has to eat a low fibre diet and he's also prone to bowel obstructions.

wholemeal anything, beans, lentils, raw veggies, peanut butter, berries etc are all out for him.

This will be excellent for his health - it will also show him is perfectly possible to survive a week without being complicit in the torture of animals. Well done the new head.

The fact you say “you wouldn’t say to a vegetarian just suck it up” tells us everything

When will the surprise and amazement come? I’m waiting…..

@childofthe607080s
Vitamin B12 deficiency is however an issue in the UK

No venue caters for every desire. Catering for everyone is generally taken to mean providing something that everyone, regardless of dietary restrictions, can eat. It does not mean providing everyone with their favourite food at all times.

Its a tad sanctimonious and I would be annoyed. Most school vegetarian focused food is likely to be shit. I think there should be an obligation to provide meat or fish for those that want it. Omnivores have as much right to be catered for as vegetarian and vegans.

Its also a bit hypocritical to cart the kids across eh country in a pollution contributing bus and then ask them to eat what will be some tired old vegetarian / vegan rubbish because its better for the environment. I have tasted good vegetarian food but the center there will absolutely not have the budget for mass producing food of that quality if they are catering for schools.

Vegetarians choose not to eat meat, but they still have digestive systems which are perfectly capable of processing meat. I don't think meat per se is likely to upset anyone's digestion, provided that it's fresh and good quality meat.

They would have even.less of a budget for good quality if they were providing meat.

If the centre is the same one mentioned earlier in the thread with a link to the webpage of the cafe's breakfast menu then your DIL would find she is catered for as it isn't just vegan. The photos of the dishes looks delicious. www.sustainability-centre.org/beech-cafe.html

No way are they providing paneer or lentils at a shitty residential camp. They’re palming them off with a low protein diet for a week and expecting them to be grateful for their piousness and virtue signalling.

It may be that the main advantages of this new place outweigh any perceived disadvantages? A different and thought provoking different ethos?

School trips aren't just for entertainment. When I organised them a large part of being able to go was to prove the educational value to SLT + Governors.

A trip such as this should open eyes, encourage thought as well as being fun.

If your child didn't know it was a meatless meal/environment there's a fair chance they wouldn't notice? They will if you bang on about it to the school, other parents, your child.

"I have a problem with the principle of why meat eaters are treated differently than vegetarians/vegans."

Welcome to my world...... I'm vegan and on more than one occasion have been treated to meat and 2 veg minus the meat. Or a plate of pasta with a tomato based sauce on it. Or a starter that was identical to the sweet (fruit salad, one had a cherry, the other didn't.) Or Danish pasties at the introduction to a course - but nothing for me.

"I do plan to send the school an email initially and request that they provide a rounded menu including meat. "

This is a fairly old attitude. I've been vegetarian since the early 80s, vegan for 10 years. All children at least vegetarian from birth. None of us have wasted away. Son runs marathons. Blood checks all fine.

Choose your battles - send in an email, complain if you must but you may end up in a situation where you feel you can't send your child , much to their detriment. Not to mention the word Karen being bandied round the Head's office.

This, the trip, responses here not to mention your own children becoming adolescents should be thought provoking to you?

Even without this trip and its 'meals' how will you cope if they want to become vegan, come out, want to take subjects you don't want them too.

Growing up is hard on both sides, the children spreading their wings and parents loosening the apron strings.

Its called marketing. I can guarantee you no food will hit the table looking like that.

You’re doing veggie wrong if it’s joyless slop.
i do eat meat, but I eat a lot of delicious veggie and (gasp) vegan stuff too. Plenty of joy. No slop.