School residential vegetarian/vegan only

[vgp1234]

My child had really been looking forward to their year 6 residential, but a new head has joined and had changed the format somewhat.

They have now booked a Sustainability Centre in Hampshire, which only caters for vegetarians and vegans. My child is not a vegetarian or vegan, and across the cohort of year 5 and 6 only one child is vegetarian.

While I appreciate that there is a view that they can go 5 days without meat and they should just suck it up, I find it incredibly frustrating that you would not ask a vegetarian or vegan child to suck it up and eat meat for 5 days. So I don't understand why we do not treat both dietary preferences with equal measure.

The new head is very keen on government guidance, and has changed our lunch menu to comply with the current guidance for school lunches which is that 3 days should include meat or fish (previously we had a meat and vegetarian/vegan option every day). However it seems this guidance only applies on the school site, so you can disregard it at a residential. While they are within their rights to do this, it does seem like quite a contradiction.

I have tried speaking to the Sustainability centre directly but they were very inflexible and just stated it is a against their ethos (may I add that they also offer a day trip at a cost to visit a working farm, who rear animals for meat, so their ethos does not run all that deep). This really goes against my ethos as not only do I think you should treat all groups equally, I can't help but feel that this is forcing their ideas on children verses allowing them free choice and the ability to hear both viewpoints (meat is unsustainable/sustainable) and make their own decision.

In all honesty I'm quite perplexed as to why the school choose the venue when it would clearly be controversial, as this is quite a personal choice for parents and the cohort has so few in it that have this dietary preference.

I'm sure some people will not agree with me, and I am open to your opinions as I'm a big believer in hearing both sides of the argument and our ability to think critically for ourselves and not be told what to think (I want this for my child too).

I do plan to send the school an email initially and request that they provide a rounded menu including meat. But I'd really appreciate any advice on how to word this appropriately as I'm quite upset by it, and I'd prefer to send a well worded email than an emotional one.

Because a meat eater also eats vegetables. A meat eater is in fact an omnivore. Eating vegetarian food isn't forcing them to eat something they do not usually eat.

A vegetarian doesn't ever eat meat. Forcing them to eat meat would be an addition. (And may well upset their digestive system, given that they are not used to processing meat. Not a good time to upset a child's digestive system, while they are away from home and parents.)

Humans are omnivores. That means we eat anything. It’s not treating anyone differently. A meat eater can eat all veggie food. Unless your child has a very unusual heath condition no child needs meat that often

would you insist that a root vegetable was included every day ? That’s the equivalent-saying you must have turnip carrot or parsnip every day Is the same as saying there must be pork chicken or beef . one sounds absurd to you and yet the other doesn’t? That’s cultural - you are so used to meat being the focus that you struggle to understand that isn’t fundamental- just your norm

we eat fat to much meat to be healthy, the land needed to provide a calorie of meat is ten times that needed for a vegetarian diet - and that affects food availability and leads to hunger around the world , and we eat far to much meat to protect the planet from what could be the end of the human race in your child’s lifetime , it’s also very expensive

there will be other food that isn’t served in the trip - perhaps no avacados or no soft fruit like strawberries and raspberries- but that doesn’t fall on your radar

he is not being mistreated any more than a child who normally drinks cola every day would be mistreated if none was available

Your children may well have struggled with whatever food was on offer if their sensory issues are that severe tbh.

As long as they cater for allergies, then I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here, apart from making your disapproval of the new head quite clear, which I imagine is probably the underlying problem. Have you been waiting for a chance to 'have a word' and think that this might be it?

The meat eaters are not being 'treated differently'. The residential is taking place at a centre that only cooks veggie food. So everyone is eating the same diet.

If you think your child won't eat for a week (any child could go on any residential and not like the food, whatever it was) then don't send them. That is the only control you have here. Or send them without fuss and look forward to hearing what a great time they had and how much they enjoyed the food. Go forward with hope, not fear!

I don’t think it’s controversial or that deep. It’s ok to educate on working farms whilst having a vegetarian food on offer.

I think it would be seen as being weird and awkward to raise this with school. A vegetarian diet can be balanced, tasty, fulfilling and with variety.

Ok, well the reason why both dietary preferences are not treated the same, in short is:

1 many children who present to wider society as vegetarian or vegan in fact have dietary restrictions driven by religion. I have Jewish friends who say they are veggie simply because they do not want to engage with stupid people about kosher rules. I have Hindu friends who do not eat anything “derived from life” which doesn’t quite map to any western way of eating (somewhere between veggie and vegan but with quirks). Muslims will often go for veggie because they can’t be sure if the meat is halal. Etc etc. so a lot of the veggie/vegan thing is actually about respecting other people’s right to their religion which in our country is seen as more important than the right to eat meat.

2 even within the Christian ethos, it’s quite clear that not eating meat is the morally better thing to do. When preparing to make onself morally clean for the big Christian festivals historically one did not eat flesh. Fasting could be either not eating at all, or not eating flesh. There have also been major Christian sects that advocate not eating meat on moral grounds (Quakers etc). So within our society not eating meat is seen as morally superior.

3 everyone can survive on eating a vegetarian diet. It meets the religious and calorific needs of humans.

example that you may not like: when I did an exchange with China, as a vegan they got me Buddhist food - completely vegan. The meat eaters got chicken legs and the local delicacies which they hated. “Meats” vary significantly across the globe.

equally, if your child was offered tripe, or liver and onions you’d probably equally be complaining. What you (probably) actually want is for him to have familiar, safe food.

Exactly. My vegetarian child will eat nothing on the school lunch menu (not helped by vegetarian school lunches being cheap 'box ticking' choices that no child ever chooses). They are very used to never being catered for.

The question should be - "Will my Child be Fed". THe rest of it is just gubbins frankly.

Many younger people are eating a lot less meat - its better for them, the environment and a range of other things.

If you are worried stuff them with a fry up before they go and have steak dinner when they get back.

It will do them good to live differently for a, very short, while

YABVU

My children are fussy eaters, my youngest in particular, and I cannot get her to eat any protein other than ham and chicken nuggets, but I would still not object to this. Arguing that it's somehow discriminating against meat-eaters is frankly ridiculous.

For a child with an eating disorder, such as very restricted eating, I would expect the school to make reasonable adjustments to allow them to attend the residential if they wanted to - this might include being able to take their own food, or taking part in some but not all of the trip (and therefore being able to eat elsewhere).

For any other child (including fussy eaters like mine) they suck it up.

I agree with you. Eating together is one of the highlights of this kind of trip but instead of that it will be 3 meals per day of joyless veggie slop. The head should keep his vitue signalling agenda out of it. Can you imagine all the preachy activities they will be doing too? What a bore.

laugh emoji back pleeeese 😂

I eat meat, a lot. I've no skin in this game.

I'd have no problem with this at all. In fact as a child I asked for the vegetarian menu on school trips because the meat was always absolutely grim. The envious looks as I tucked into my cheese and tomato pizza while everyone else shoved steak and kidney pudding around their plate has stayed with me for 3 decades! 😂

I think your argument is flawed on a basic level. Your child does not eat only meat and nothing else. No one is asking them to eat something they're morally or religiously opposed to. This is no different to them eating all the things they usually have served with meat, just without the meat.

I wouldn't bother talking to the school, I can't see it gaining you anything at all.

But most importantly I'd not be fussing over it where DC can hear you. You'll just psych them up to not want to try the food.

In reality, if they're presented with lentil bolognese, or cheese and tomato pizza, or 5 bean chilli and all their friends are tucking in happily then so will they.

Your reverse argument about expecting a vegan child to eat meat is flawed. Can you not see the difference between not making one type of food available to people who eat a variety of foods, and forcing people who don't want to eat a particular food to eat it? Would you say not offering sweets to children was the equal opposite of forcing sweets on your child when you wanted to restrict their sugar intake?

I've eaten plenty of joyless meaty slop. It isn't specific to vegetarians.

Your knowing the venue and saying they have excellent food would be a bonus for me if my children were attending - many vegetarian/vegan meals in a catering environment are dismal!

As to the OPs question about meat eaters being treated differently - I don't think they are, and I speak as an omnivore!

Meat is not a compulsory component of a decent meal, although it's the norm for most people I would say, so as long as it's tasty, nutritious and plentiful I think you're being unreasonable.

Years ago I went on a training course with provided lunch - fully vegetarian, fresh, healthy and really delicious. One woman made a big fuss saying she needed protein (we pointed out the range of protein provided) but she left the venue and came back with a pork pie from the newsagents next door. This thread reminded me of her.

I imagine some pasta etc is a lot healthier for your child than cheap catering sausages or nuggets, but you seem to have an agenda you want to push, so carry on

Just tell everyone you have no imagination and can't cook.

Do you understand what sustainability means? 😂

I couldn’t get worked up about this. It sounds like a great opportunity to learn about how our food choices impact the planet, and also to try some new things. You don’t have to be vegetarian to eat vegetarian food. We have a farm and raise animals for meat, and we eat vegetarian probably 4 days out of 7. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I went on a school trip back in the 90s that was focused on conservation and environmental science. We were asked to eat vegetarian for the week (we mostly ate at small restaurants or stands), nearly everyone did. A big part of the course was about deforestation and the beef industry in Central and South America. It really wasn’t a big deal.

Your child already frequently eats "veggie" !
Or are you saying they'd refuse to eat a margarita pizza, macaroni cheese, baked potato and baked beans, chips, toast and peanut butter, bowl of cereal, cakes, biscuits, omelette, I could go on and on.
Substituting plant based protein for animal protein is a minor change to their diet. What a ridiculous response.

You are being ridiculous. It's only a few days. I promise they won't come home malnourished vegans. Sounds you could do with some education around sustainable and a balanced diet yourself OP, perhaps see if you could volunteer as a parent helper?

oh come on, OP. People don’t eat meat for moral and ethical reasons. You can’t be morally opposed to eating vegetables for five days. It’s not comparable at all. We are a family of meat eaters but my kids often eat veggie meals and would happily eat this menu for five days. I think you’re over reacting and taking it personally when it isn’t.

find it incredibly frustrating that you would not ask a vegetarian or vegan child to suck it up and eat meat for 5 days.

Not even remotely comparable. Presumably your child eats vegetables and grains. Mine does not eat meat.

Your kids will just have to resign themselves to damaging the environment a little less for a few days. Not even MUCH less, if there's dairy etc. They'll cope.

My family isn't vegan or vegetarian.

But that doesn't mean we have to have meat at every meal. Some days we have meat other days have veg meals. There are plenty of delicious vegetarian foods and meals.

I wouldn't be bothered by my kids not having meat for a week.

The only thing I would want to avoid is the fake meat that vegan food is usually full of. As long as the kids weren't having ultraprocessed God knows what as fake meat I wouldn't be bothered.

find it incredibly frustrating that you would not ask a vegetarian or vegan child to suck it up and eat meat for 5 days

Inappropriate comment - clearly not the same thing! This trip sounds like a great opportunity for the kids to sample vegetarian meals, some of which may become their favourites! Please don't waste the school's time complaining. They are busy trying to enrich the curriculum by organising this trip for your child!