Page 5 | To think the social contract has completely broken down?

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 21:37

BurntBroccoli · 19/09/2025 21:07

It has a lot to do with social media and people living their lives as though online.

I wish the internet had never moved to phones.

It’s like Plato’s Cave, isn’t it… people not seeing the real world, only the shadows of it on the wall. People watching others live their lives instead of living their own. Quite scary really.

LimitedMedicalKnowledge · 19/09/2025 21:39

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 21:34

I agree with you! My great aunt once gave me some advice when I was getting particularly stressed. She said a person can only row their own little boat on this life. And I think she was right, and I can only say it’s served me well. I accept the things I can’t control and just concentrate all my energies on my own family and circle of friends and neighbours. I can’t do any more than that. I don’t get stressed about things I see on the news over which I have no control, or strangers acting badly in shops and on trains.

I feel very sad about the decline of manners and civility in the country now, but the individual can only do so much.

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The thing is, if everyone was like you, making sure your own family is ok, and caring for your friends and neighbours, our country would be in a great place.

Collectively it would be brilliant.

Dymaxion · 19/09/2025 21:39

The sheer number of cars that drive through just gone red lights. It’s astounding

There is a set near me, where if they put camera's on them , the council's budget for highways/education/social care would probably triple !

Livelovebehappy · 19/09/2025 21:45

My children were in their teens before mobile phones and the internet kicked off. And I’m so glad. I remember happy children socialising a lot with friends out doors. Going swimming, going to parks and just imaginative play being children. It’s sad now to see how much that’s changed.

sminted · 19/09/2025 21:48

I think all expenditure should be reviewed in terms of what people want when they realise the limitations.

Education has to be number 1, otherwise the country has no future.

Also the social contract must include considering where the boundaries lie on free services - there is no ceiling to healthcare expenditure because treatments improve all the time. But the level of entitlement we now have is pretty high - the complaining about free services in the UK seems very high to me.

Our health & social care model is not sustainable as people do not pay anywhere near enough tax for it.

TryingAgainAgainAgain · 19/09/2025 21:49

BuddhaAtSea · 19/09/2025 15:39

I think the entitlement has reached new heights. So has chronic loneliness. It’s like people forgot to grow up. It’s far easier to live behind the screen and cry if something doesn’t go your way, just waiting for the others to solve their problems but not offering anything in return.
My daughter’s generation is the last one who didn’t have a phone/tablet since birth. She doom scrolls, but she knows how to snap out of it and meet people face to face, she’s got the emotional intelligence to process what’s going on around her, and act accordingly.

Maybe they’re all cooking something and I have no idea, maybe they’re onto something. But they don’t seem content, they seem dissociated.

How old is your daughter?

Realley · 19/09/2025 21:52

You’re conflating a lot of different issue into one homogenous thing. It’s not.

Figgygal · 19/09/2025 21:54

Not to mention that shitheads seem emboldened to be racist and the dehumanising language that people throw around.
It's pretty grim out there

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 21:59

EmeraldRoulette · 19/09/2025 20:58

@smallpinecone I think you are talking about the broken windows theory?

That reminds me of something else. If anyone's old enough to remember New York zero tolerance policing, a lot of people seem to have misunderstood what that was.

It basically meant that if you were caught doing something like jumping the barrier at the subway, when they arrested you, they would go through all of your details at the station. They actually found that a lot of people who were jumping the barriers had committed other crimes. This then enabled them to build a proper profile of individuals

Meanwhile, at the moment, policing in the UK is not focused on this kind of thing at all. It's paying no attention to the broken windows problems.

I did read Michael Shellenberger's SanFransicko when it came out, but I don't remember much detail - I think there were massive parallels between that and London now - but sadly it's all across the UK. Only massive political change is going to help. And we've got four years before we can even try and get near that.

Thank you for that! I’m going to look it up and read.

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 22:02

Figgygal · 19/09/2025 21:54

Not to mention that shitheads seem emboldened to be racist and the dehumanising language that people throw around.
It's pretty grim out there

Can we not have a civil discussion about problems, even cultural differences and issues, without being referred to as racist shitheads? 🙄

You’re doing a good job with the dehumanising language yourself. Pot, kettle.

SecretNameforMN · 19/09/2025 22:03

It's more a case of people wanting what they want and not giving a wet slap about anybody else. In other words, selfishness and entitlement.

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 22:08

LimitedMedicalKnowledge · 19/09/2025 21:39

The thing is, if everyone was like you, making sure your own family is ok, and caring for your friends and neighbours, our country would be in a great place.

Collectively it would be brilliant.

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I wonder why it is though that people genuinely don’t seem to care that their behaviour is having a negative impact on others? It’s strange, isn’t it… I think most people would be mortified and upset to think that they were annoying other people, hurting other people - I don’t really understand why people just don’t give a damn, basically! I’d like to have it explained to me.

Evaka · 19/09/2025 22:15

I'd be intrigued to see how you'd cope if the social contract actually did break down. You do realise that the overwhelming majority of people cooperate with strangers every day and follow the rules that matter? Yeah loud phone sounds are annoying but annoying is not the collapse of civilisation.

Redpeach · 19/09/2025 22:24

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 22:02

Can we not have a civil discussion about problems, even cultural differences and issues, without being referred to as racist shitheads? 🙄

You’re doing a good job with the dehumanising language yourself. Pot, kettle.

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Why do you think that's directed at you?

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 22:29

Redpeach · 19/09/2025 22:24

Why do you think that's directed at you?

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I didn’t… I should have said without people being referred to as…. whatever. But I missed out a word.

Mrsmunchofmunchington · 19/09/2025 22:30

Fruitlips · 19/09/2025 15:42

Are you happy in your personal life OP?

Why does someone always ask this sort of stupid question whenever there is a thread about the state of society?

BuddhaAtSea · 19/09/2025 22:30

TryingAgainAgainAgain · 19/09/2025 21:49

How old is your daughter?

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Mid 20s

suburburban · 19/09/2025 22:31

smallpinecone · 19/09/2025 20:34

I can’t remember the phrase that describes the phenomenon, maybe it’ll come back to me. But there’s good evidence that when small, minor incidents of antisocial behaviour or bad manners occur and aren’t effectively dealt with, it encourages an escalation in poor behaviour over time.

Once it would have been unacceptable to play loud music on public transport, to put your shoes up on the seats, to eat smelly fast food and leave the litter everywhere. Now those who choose to behave in an antisocial way feel emboldened to continue, since the small acts of rudeness were tolerated, and their behaviour continues to deteriorate.

It’s not a bad thing to have certain reasonable standards and expectations of decent behaviour. An endlessly tolerant, permissive society where everyone does as they please regardless of the impact on others is a road to hell - every atomised individual not caring about anyone other than themselves.

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Yes it was

now you have to be careful as they may turn violent

foxlover47 · 19/09/2025 22:51

I always think it must of been Covid that changed things so much , mostly because I don’t remember it being quite so on edge as it seems now

Ivesaidenough · 19/09/2025 22:52

RubySquid · 19/09/2025 16:47

From the 80s Wonder why they needed that poster if if was never done

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Headphones used to leak a lot. That's what that poster refers to - keeping the sound level low enough not to be heard outside your headphones.
The good old days!

ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine · 19/09/2025 22:55

I’ve been a wheelchair user for the best part of twenty years now and I haven’t noticed any difference in the number of people parking in accessible spaces without blue badges. It’s always been a big problem and it still is. Some people are just plain selfish.

Cel77 · 19/09/2025 22:57

Fruitlips · 19/09/2025 15:28

I don’t know, I’m quite content, my children are happy, healthy and thriving, I enjoy life and generally find people pretty decent 🤷‍♀️

It's lovely to hear but you must realise that the world around you is immensely vast and that many people experience different things than the ones you do.
Things can change quickly in life,as many people find out in this big old wide world that we live in.
It's not being negative to think like this, merely just pondering about the world around us, observing and discussing.

DBSFstupid · 19/09/2025 23:09

KenAdams · 19/09/2025 15:27

It seems as though everything if affected, from parking in disabled spaces when you don't need them to talking loudly in train quiet carriages to not tolerating people that are different or have different views to you or caring if they are drowned or tortured.

I'm not sure if it was COVID that ramped up the every man for himself mentality but everywhere just seems like a cesspit at the moment.

Of course it could just be the places I frequent but I travel a lot and I don't even think its a UK thing, it seems to be everywhere.

I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way.

I have been thinking about this so much over the last years.

I travel an awful lot too and do see this elsewhere but I think the UK is much, much worse.

Going to hell in a handcart is my current quote. I can't see a way out of it all.
I despair actually.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 19/09/2025 23:20

KenAdams · 19/09/2025 15:27

It seems as though everything if affected, from parking in disabled spaces when you don't need them to talking loudly in train quiet carriages to not tolerating people that are different or have different views to you or caring if they are drowned or tortured.

I'm not sure if it was COVID that ramped up the every man for himself mentality but everywhere just seems like a cesspit at the moment.

Of course it could just be the places I frequent but I travel a lot and I don't even think its a UK thing, it seems to be everywhere.

I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way.

It's been coming a long time and it happened way before Covid.

The social contract hasn't completely broken down by any means but it's fractured and badly damaged.

it's also under active attack.

EmeraldRoulette · 20/09/2025 00:01

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar active attack?

People saying that bad manners aren't the end of the world. No, they're not, but it leads to a collective feeling of disenfranchisement.

Example from today
I was in a different area for work

Found what looked like a nice park with a pond in the middle and a walking path. Lots of wildlife, lots of people sitting on benches and enjoying all of that

two blokes came along - one walking one on a bike, playing incredibly loud music - not together, but just circling the pond with their loud music so you couldn't get any peace

I actually think they were revelling in the fact that no one is brave enough to tell them to shut the fuck up - because you'll get stabbed.

and that's somebody causing a noise deliberately to intimidate

The amount of just making a racket and actually being genuinely clueless about how upsetting it is - no wonder people are on edge

This is one of many issues. But I think politeness and consideration are really important parts of societal glue.