Page 29 | Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

AnotherNC12345 · 2025-09-17T09:54:00+00:00

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey? I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders. It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt. These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders. I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 16:48

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 16:43

The majority of people coming on boats will never be net contributors; they lack the skills and education for higher paying jobs and will likely always be supported by taxpayers. Those who are highly skilled and educated are more likely to come via legal visa routes. Whichever way they decide to come here, don’t you think the developing nation they are leaving might need them too, having educated and trained them?

“I have no idea how or why someone’s life would be worsened by someone else bettering theirs.” - how about having to pay for the majority of refugees and economic migrants because they will never be able to support themselves and their families? That severely impacts the UK’s ability to spend money on its own people. Seeing the nature of their area change when they have had little or no say in it? Hotels no longer available for use, HMOs taking housing away from local people?

If somewhere it
s safe enough for a holiday, it’s safe enough to live in.

Refugees have lower qualifications and employment rates than the UK born
The data show that people who come to the UK to seek asylum tend to have lower levels of education compared to other migrants and the UK-born population (Figure 14). While around 16% hold high-level qualifications (NQF Level 6 and above), such as university degrees, a significant 30% have no formal qualifications – compared to just 8% among the UK born.

https://public.tableau.com/views/AsylumYEDec2024/Fig14?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no&:host_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublic.tableau.com%2F&:embed_code_version=3&:tabs=no&:toolbar=yes&:animate_transition=yes&:display_static_image=no&:display_spinner=no&:display_overlay=yes&:display_count=yes&:language=en-GB&:loadOrderID=15

Research on resettled refugees indicates that employment rates are low. Similarly, labour market data on people who report arriving in the UK seeking protection find lower employment rates than among the UK born, with a particularly large gap among women (Figure 14). Several factors contribute to this trend, including low English proficiency and chronic health conditions. For those who arrive in the UK spontaneously (i.e., not through resettlement programmes), there is evidence that prolonged waiting periods during the asylum process can also hinder career progression.
Between 2020 and 2022, men who came to seek asylum at least ten years previously had much higher employment rates than recent arrivals, narrowing the gap with the UK born (Figure 15).
For women, however, disparities in employment persisted even after long periods of residence. Studies suggest that limited English proficiency and cultural norms around childcare—particularly common in regions such as North Africa and the Middle East, where many refugees originate—play a major role in women’s continued economic inactivity. Additionally, difficulties attending English for Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL) classes, including due to childcare responsibilities, can further hinder refugee women’s integration into the labour market.

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We’ve covered this. For an individual to be a net contributor, the estimated salary is currently £41k.

Outside of certain areas of the country, that is a high salary. It’s £10k higher than the UK median salary.

We need people who earn less than that to prop up our workplaces. Hospitals, care homes, schools, other vital services. You can add value to this country without earning £41k.

If you couldn’t, we’d be vilifying everyone who earned less than that, not just the ones who have arrived here from another country.

FWIW, I am a net contributor, and I do not mind contributing more to support others, including migrants.

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 16:52

AnotherNC12345 · 20/09/2025 16:11

From gov website:
The most common nationality among small-boat arrivals in the UK (for the year ending June 2025) is Afghanistan.

I don’t think we have to ‘make up’ why someone’s running from the Taliban.

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Why? It's not longer at war.
I can understand why women would flee, and yet...

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 16:53

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 16:37

I’ve answered that, you just didn’t like the answer.

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Doesn’t it strike you as at all strange that people fleeing persecution wouldn’t get persecuted when they visit their family for a couple of weeks? Maybe, just maybe, they weren’t actually fleeing persecution at all…

PurpleNurple23 · 20/09/2025 16:56

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 12:10

@PurpleNurple23 / @SpaceRaccoon

So you both think it’s acceptable to either refuse people in genuine need asylum, or vilify those who are economic migrants and move here for a better life, when presumably that was your reasoning for moving too?

On this exact thread, there’s been remarks about staying in your home country and helping it prosper, rather than coming here for safety or for your own development. Do you not see that those who feel that way could ask you the same question? Why didn’t you stay put and prosper there?

My family didn’t. They’d have starved to death in their home country had they not migrated here. I don’t take that for granted or blame others for doing the same.

It’s hypocritical at best to be an anti immigration immigrant.

Q1) Yes. I moved because DH got a job here.
Q2). I understand that. DH and I will move back to India in a few years to retire.

You can totally be an immigrant and realise the negative impacts mass immigration has. You can benefit on an individual level and realise the negative effects to the wider society as a whole.

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:02

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 16:53

Doesn’t it strike you as at all strange that people fleeing persecution wouldn’t get persecuted when they visit their family for a couple of weeks? Maybe, just maybe, they weren’t actually fleeing persecution at all…

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We understand the difference between being somewhere and living somewhere, right?

I don’t fully understand why you’re so concerned whether people visit their home country or not.

I am wondering, in honesty, if you just don’t trust either asylum seekers or migrants, for whatever reason.

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 17:07

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:02

We understand the difference between being somewhere and living somewhere, right?

I don’t fully understand why you’re so concerned whether people visit their home country or not.

I am wondering, in honesty, if you just don’t trust either asylum seekers or migrants, for whatever reason.

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I don't trust somebody who says they are in danger and absolutely cannot go home, but can go home just for a bit. Especially when taxpayers are funding both their escape, and their holiday.

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 17:23

I am wondering, in honesty, if you just don’t trust either asylum seekers or migrants, for whatever reason.

It hardly takes a deeply cynical nature to realise that if you have a wealthy country with generous benefits, and a way for unskilled people from much poorer counties to get into this country and access the benefits, that a fair old percentage of people will say whatever necessary to achieve that aim.

Cosmicbroccoli · 20/09/2025 17:23

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 12:59

We have only ever been able to deport people to a country which accepts returns. It’s also very difficult to deport somebody who has no papers and whose country of origin cannot definitively be established.

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Yes and we have deals with a number of countries listed here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10157/
if you read that list then look at the countries in the EU you’ll see that many EU counties aren’t on our list we have deals with. So we are now less able to return people to Europe which we would have been able to do pre- brexit.

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 17:26

Cosmicbroccoli · 20/09/2025 17:23

Yes and we have deals with a number of countries listed here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10157/
if you read that list then look at the countries in the EU you’ll see that many EU counties aren’t on our list we have deals with. So we are now less able to return people to Europe which we would have been able to do pre- brexit.

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So you agree we should return people to Afghanistan, as we have a returns deal with them?

OwlBeThere · 20/09/2025 17:27

Youdontseehow · 20/09/2025 14:14

Good grief you really are an extremely narrow minded and blinkered individual! Just because I don't agree with you or fit your "right wing racist" narrative, you are clutching at straws to demonise me.

Yes, I have had "decent converstions" with them, I advocate for them on a daily basis, I ferry many around to appointments as part of my job in public health, I've been working with asylum seekers for more than 10 years. I have my own donation service where people can donate toys, clothes, soft furnishings etc which I then arrange to have delivered to their homes. Is that enough for you?

However as I have stated on numerous occassions, genuine asylum seekers are not the same as illegal economic migrants. And the UK cannot safely accomodate an infinite amount of any migrants - legal or otherwise.

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I’m not narrow minded or blinkered, I’m just extremely jaded and sad about the human race as a whole these days.
The people being discussed here are the people in hotels and b&bs who are asylum seekers. Those are the people being abused and targeted and intimidated and who the OP asked about.
no one is asking us to take an infinite number of migrants.

PurpleNurple23 · 20/09/2025 17:28

The way I see it, let's say someone gives you a biscuit jar. A handful of these biscuits are laced with poison. How many biscuits would you eat and let into your body?

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:29

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 17:26

So you agree we should return people to Afghanistan, as we have a returns deal with them?

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We absolutely should not be returning people to Afghanistan.

Viviennemary · 20/09/2025 17:31

They are coming here to milk the system and get a better life. But the point is it's illegal. Anyone should arrives illegally should get a criminal record and be ineligible to ever claim asylum in the UK. Why do we need passports and checks but they can just rock up with no documents or any right to live here. Total madness.m

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:31

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 17:23

I am wondering, in honesty, if you just don’t trust either asylum seekers or migrants, for whatever reason.

It hardly takes a deeply cynical nature to realise that if you have a wealthy country with generous benefits, and a way for unskilled people from much poorer counties to get into this country and access the benefits, that a fair old percentage of people will say whatever necessary to achieve that aim.

You believe people come here for UC, when our “own” are struggling to live on it and simultaneously feed their children?

OwlBeThere · 20/09/2025 17:36

PurpleNurple23 · 20/09/2025 11:12

I wouldn't want a single refugee in my house or in my area. I can see the negative societal effects in the UK and what happened in the EU.

I can talk about success. DH and I grew up with very little in India. Honestly next to nothing, we just believed in education and working hard. Moved over to the UK (legally and didn't claim a single penny from the tax payer) and built a life for ourselves. Have instilled the values of hard work onto our kids.

I think for any physically healthy person your success is down to you. If you're able bodied, got 2 arms and 2 legs, what you do in life is down to you. I'd also like to thank billionaires for the many tech products we are both using to write on this thread

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Yes. You said. I again refer you to being a nice person.
The fact you are yourself an immigrant makes it even more grim you hold such views. You can think what you like about success, there is absolute irrefutable evidence to the contrary, I also grew up poor and am now financially stable and have a career I worked hard to build from nothing. But I am the exception, not the rule. I have the advantage of being lucky enough to possess excellent academic ability and that means I’ve been able to hold on to my career even with a progressive disability. Most don’t have that. Success on the whole has very little to do with you working hard, and everything to do with luck.
I also feel bad for you, because if Nigel and his friends get into power, they won’t care that you came here legally or took no money, they just care that you’re brown. If you support them you’re no different than all the MAGA farmers in the US who didn’t think he meant to deport THEIR Mexicans. Or whose British wife visited home and now can’t get back into the US after living there legally for 30 years.

and once theyre done with the immigrants, who do they come for next?

EasternStandard · 20/09/2025 17:45

Cosmicbroccoli · 20/09/2025 17:23

Yes and we have deals with a number of countries listed here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10157/
if you read that list then look at the countries in the EU you’ll see that many EU counties aren’t on our list we have deals with. So we are now less able to return people to Europe which we would have been able to do pre- brexit.

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Not many people were returned with the EU. We took more than sent and it was very low in number. Other EU countries are similar. It doesn’t do much to alter the situation politicians are facing.

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 17:48

You believe people come here for UC, when our “own” are struggling to live on it and simultaneously feed their children?

UK benefits look incredibly generous to those from genuinely poor countries, yes.
And if you're a large family with several children that can be classed as disabled, it isn't a small amount, especially with the free housing, free healthcare etc.

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:58

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 17:48

You believe people come here for UC, when our “own” are struggling to live on it and simultaneously feed their children?

UK benefits look incredibly generous to those from genuinely poor countries, yes.
And if you're a large family with several children that can be classed as disabled, it isn't a small amount, especially with the free housing, free healthcare etc.

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Well.

We have a disabled child, and the first thing I’d say is that DLA isn’t as easy to get as you clearly think, and even when you do have it - it doesn’t scratch the surface of the extra costs attached to having a child with disability.

Our benefit system is as broken as our education system.

Do you not believe that economic migration may also be for the opportunity to work and contribute?

PurpleNurple23 · 20/09/2025 17:59

OwlBeThere · 20/09/2025 17:36

Yes. You said. I again refer you to being a nice person.
The fact you are yourself an immigrant makes it even more grim you hold such views. You can think what you like about success, there is absolute irrefutable evidence to the contrary, I also grew up poor and am now financially stable and have a career I worked hard to build from nothing. But I am the exception, not the rule. I have the advantage of being lucky enough to possess excellent academic ability and that means I’ve been able to hold on to my career even with a progressive disability. Most don’t have that. Success on the whole has very little to do with you working hard, and everything to do with luck.
I also feel bad for you, because if Nigel and his friends get into power, they won’t care that you came here legally or took no money, they just care that you’re brown. If you support them you’re no different than all the MAGA farmers in the US who didn’t think he meant to deport THEIR Mexicans. Or whose British wife visited home and now can’t get back into the US after living there legally for 30 years.

and once theyre done with the immigrants, who do they come for next?

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I don't support Reform but given that they've said they'll only deport people who come here illegally and foreign criminals I'm not worried. I'm also a naturalised UK citizen.

SpaceRaccoon · 20/09/2025 18:01

Do you not believe that economic migration may also be for the opportunity to work and contribute?

Yes absolutely but immigrants should still be of clear overall benefit to the country ie well educated, verifiable lack of criminal record, good English, culturally compatible etc.

Our benefit system is as broken as our education system.

Honestly it's still untold riches in comparison to what the poor have in least developed countries.

EasternStandard · 20/09/2025 18:01

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:58

Well.

We have a disabled child, and the first thing I’d say is that DLA isn’t as easy to get as you clearly think, and even when you do have it - it doesn’t scratch the surface of the extra costs attached to having a child with disability.

Our benefit system is as broken as our education system.

Do you not believe that economic migration may also be for the opportunity to work and contribute?

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There may be issues but using broken when comparing with countries where people are coming from isn’t the case.

ETA we have high state support atm.

Lemonandorangecheescake · 20/09/2025 18:08

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 17:31

You believe people come here for UC, when our “own” are struggling to live on it and simultaneously feed their children?

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So why don't we look after our own first, before helping people coming here illegally?

Cosmicbroccoli · 20/09/2025 18:09

EasternStandard · 20/09/2025 17:45

Not many people were returned with the EU. We took more than sent and it was very low in number. Other EU countries are similar. It doesn’t do much to alter the situation politicians are facing.

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Ah ok, I didn’t know that - it would be good to see the figures around that. There’s a lack of transparency which doesn’t help the current climate and tensions.
It would be helpful if politician had more honest conversations around the issues faced rather than he stoking of divisions that has become mainstream.

Cosmicbroccoli · 20/09/2025 18:16

usernamealreadytaken · 20/09/2025 17:26

So you agree we should return people to Afghanistan, as we have a returns deal with them?

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No I do not especially as that deal is currently not workable due to the regime change. I really can’t see where you’ve got that from in anything I’ve written.

SleeplessInWherever · 20/09/2025 18:17

Lemonandorangecheescake · 20/09/2025 18:08

So why don't we look after our own first, before helping people coming here illegally?

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Seeking asylum isn’t illegal, and you can’t claim UC whilst in the asylum system.

If you are claiming UC, you must have some type of visa that allows recourse to public funds (not all of them do) or leave to remain, in which case - you’re also not illegally present in the country.