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Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

882 replies

AnotherNC12345 · 17/09/2025 10:54

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey?

I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders.

It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt.

These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders.

I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…
Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…
OP posts:
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9
EmeraldShamrock000 · 18/09/2025 20:16

Trying to discourage others from following them.
Of course I feel sorry for them as a human but there is no deterrent to stop it from all over Europe.
People are angry because services are stretched, plus lack of background checks, many arrested have previous convictions, some for very serious crimes.

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 20:18

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 18:57

These articles are so depressing.

This is what people are concerned by. A known, convicted Islamic terrorist enters country the illegally, claims asylum, rapes a woman late at night in a park while waiting for his claim to be processed and is now locked up in prison.

And the judicial system is still discussing his rights and whether he should be deported or not.

I can’t see where he was a known terrorist? His bios would have given that detail up.
As they say he was here illegally sounds like his asylum claim was rejected and either he was waiting appeal, or a removal, but that’s not stated precisely.
What he did was abhorrent and he is at least jailed, unlike many rapists, and is subject to a deportation order.
However abhorrent I don’t think this means that the entire Egyptian male population are rapists. I don’t think it means all asylum seekers are rapists.
I am actually not trying to get people onto my way of thinking re immigration- though some may be surprised - I’m hoping for humanity to other humans ie/ don’t shout at them outside hotels, attack them. And this is becoming more and more not ‘just asylum seekers’ because it’s now taken as more or less ok by many to do that to them, so it’s spreading to other people that look to some as if they may not be ‘British’.
I do also despair at the misinformation- for example though this awful individual is subject to a deportation order due to his crime, normally failed asylum seekers/other failed applicants go under a removal notice. They also aren’t illegal whilst pending a claim/appeal. It’s like a starting point for a maths problem being 2+2=5 - it is just a wrong starting premis and spoils a lot of debate around this as it seems deliberately obtuse, and like these people are so unimportant it just doesn’t matter how we term them. None of this is good for any of us and our society.

Youdontseehow · 18/09/2025 20:20

AnotherNC12345 · 18/09/2025 19:54

I was going to say the same. Britain was the First Nation in the world to offer free, universal and comprehensive healthcare to all its residents. The minister of healthcare (founder) at the time said himself “No society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.” - to me things like this are British values and ones to be proud of.

But it’s not “free” though! It is “free at the point of delivery” but paid for through taxation. It’s not a bottomless pit of “free treatment”.

You may be surprised to know that translators are paid more per hour than an average nurse (qualified approx 5 years). I spent an hour on the phone to a father last week via a translator only for him to deny his daughter treatment because “his daughter will not have sex”. All in the cost for that one hour would be about £60 - multiply that by thousands and that’s how much NHS money is being spent on what was a waste of time.

Many fathers will also not let their DC be vaccinated (although they’ll let them have vaccines if required by governments to go “back home”) so our communities are at increased risk of viral outbreaks, TB because children are not getting protected.

Why come here if you are going to reject modern medicine?

TheLivelyViper · 18/09/2025 20:23

usernamealreadytaken · 18/09/2025 16:37

"You also cannot claim asylum until you are on UK soil, unless you are coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong. That it is the only current programme which exists, and I'm happy about that but it means for anyone else from many countries in turmoil have to reach here before you can reach asylum seekers. There is UKRS which an existing scheme for vulnerable refugees. You have to be referred for resettlement by partners such as the UNHCR." - so why don't these men take their families and go to a safe refugee camp?

Also before Brexit we were part of the Dublin III Regulation in which the EU tried to determine which member state was responsible for examining an asylum claim. In practice states could return asylum seekers to the first “safe” EU country they entered - however since Brexit we can no longer do that. So that's another reason why we now have to take more asylum seekers." - we received more returns than we were able to deport under Dublin III.

"Finally the reason why many asylum seekers lack passports or documents is because first many countries don't provide the documentation, if you are fleeing from a dictatorship or a violent regime you can't exactly go to the passport office and say can I have one before you try and escape." - they have enough time to plan, for their families to cobble together the smuggling fee, and contact a criminal gang, so you'd assume they might just remember to grab their documents on their way out of the door, and also remember not to throw them in the Channel on their way over.

"If your facing, a girl facing FGM cannot ask the local authorities for a passport as the community is often complicit in the practice, making official documents impossible to access without flagging something." - they are not men.

"Or like in northern Mozambique last week when Al Shabbah forcibly displaced many from their homes and killed some people, children watching decapitation, displacing thousands, burning homes and committing atrocities. Families had no chance to retrieve personal documents before running for safety." - again, they are not men; we don't get thousands of women and children fleeing; they go to safe places which are close.

Most of the places these men are fleeing require citizens to carry their national ID, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume they would not only have one, but be used to carrying it 🙄

Refugee camps aren't nice places, many are over crowded because they have too many people, many with the further cuts to FCDO and foreign aid, have had to shut down or don't have enough supplies. There is often just two tents, sometimes open to the weather, often people sleeping on top of rach other, mainly on the floor, which is the sand etc as they often don't have beds etc.
In fact the one set up in southern Mozambique in response to the recent burnings of the homes - the camp is running out of the supplies they use for children, they don't have enough money to get them all, they are asking for a rapid injection of funding but if they don't get it, some workers will have to leave as they won't be able to keep it going. Many charities/camps have been affected by the continued funding cuts of foriegn aid from the UK and other countries, the fact that many have done it at the same time has had disastrous effects.

In the recent attacks in Mozambique which are recent, the same ones also from Boko Haram in norther Nigeria, they burnt some of the homes and all people had (that's why they cannot get their documents, their were children having to flee and see decapitations, people took the clothes they had and ran, and tried to hide, many homes were destroyed, people were killed by Al Shabbah, and they forcibly displaced and moved these people out of their homes). This is very common in some these areas, both my terrorist groups, some of which are more powerful than the state, and in other areas by the state military as well.

With you saying many of these places expect you to carry ID, in certain areas if trying to flee, having said ID will mean you are caught, in many of these places as dictators etc get into power they revoke and take away people's passports etc as do many of the terrorist groups. In response to FGM as I also said it is a common tactic to inflict sexual violence onto men (yes still not FGM but that was just an example, I wasn't only talking about men in my comment). As I said earlier, Men in conflict zones are also victims of sexual violence, more than we expect. In the DRC, the UN has documented widespread cases of men and boys being raped in detention or conflict settings as a form of humiliation and control. Both my the state sometimes and often my such milita groups as well.

If you're escaping the sexual violence across Goma and the DRC, you are at risk of retribution from the military you cannot travel to your home (which many don't have any more), to get documents, you have to flee and do so as quickly as possible. Military forces, or militias often deliberately seize or destroy identity papers to control populations or prevent escape. For instance, Rohingya refugees in Myanmar were widely documented as having their papers confiscated, leaving them stateless, on purpose.

As I also said, men often gave the worse treatment (sometimes), with torture, forced military service, sexual violence as humiliation, worse punishments if they defy, or try to escape etc.

When you flee a country, you often don't pay anyone at that point (depending on geography), plus people smugglers approach them and exploit them. The crossing the chanel element is the last bit of the journey, so actually they don't contact them at the start. They often don't "cobble anything together", families often split up to avoid detection, men commonly go first as its a risky journery and then they try and bring other members over (they often travel behind, so they escape to another country and travel through, but the men tend to take the more dangerous path first, as it's easier to find ways to get the rest of your family into the safe country of your choice after). Many people leave with the clothes on their back, especially those who sometimes when they get to refugee camps, have to leave as its too full.

In respect to them staying in other countries or within they continent, the vast majority do, last year we only had 100k refugees and 34% were on small boats. Last year globally there were 43.7 million refugees.

Over 73 million people displaced within their own countries (internally displaced persons), so many don't even leave at all.
In terms of other safer African countries - The East of Africa hosted about 5.4 million refugees and asylum seekers in 2024. Whilst these same countries had 18.8 million internally displaced people. This means that refugee camps etc are very stretched, many people unfortunately cannot stay, and as I said above the cuts to foreign aid, has had a major impact as well, particularly with the specific food/pastes for those who are malnourished. Uganda for example took 1.8 million last year, Ethiopia, 1.1 million, etc.

In West & Central Africa, last year they had nearly 2.55 million refugees & asylum seekers (Chad, Cameroon, Niger, Mali, Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire and other countries as well). The MENA region took around 16.6 million forcibly displaced people last year.
So Jordan around 611k, Egypt, 877k, Turkey 2.9 million. So in comparison to our 100k as a richer country and one with more resources in terms.of charities etc, is quite little as the countries nearby already do a lot. Unfortunately there's lots of bad things and conflicts, targeting, torture across the world and that leads to 43 million refugees and that's just the people who have to leave their countries and set up a new home.

Papyrophile · 18/09/2025 20:25

That's a lot of words used to say very little @MsJinks . I really despair at the reluctance of immigrant communities to embrace progress. Honestly, I think some would prefer to live in the Stone Age.

Ablondiebutagoody · 18/09/2025 20:28

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 20:18

I can’t see where he was a known terrorist? His bios would have given that detail up.
As they say he was here illegally sounds like his asylum claim was rejected and either he was waiting appeal, or a removal, but that’s not stated precisely.
What he did was abhorrent and he is at least jailed, unlike many rapists, and is subject to a deportation order.
However abhorrent I don’t think this means that the entire Egyptian male population are rapists. I don’t think it means all asylum seekers are rapists.
I am actually not trying to get people onto my way of thinking re immigration- though some may be surprised - I’m hoping for humanity to other humans ie/ don’t shout at them outside hotels, attack them. And this is becoming more and more not ‘just asylum seekers’ because it’s now taken as more or less ok by many to do that to them, so it’s spreading to other people that look to some as if they may not be ‘British’.
I do also despair at the misinformation- for example though this awful individual is subject to a deportation order due to his crime, normally failed asylum seekers/other failed applicants go under a removal notice. They also aren’t illegal whilst pending a claim/appeal. It’s like a starting point for a maths problem being 2+2=5 - it is just a wrong starting premis and spoils a lot of debate around this as it seems deliberately obtuse, and like these people are so unimportant it just doesn’t matter how we term them. None of this is good for any of us and our society.

Obviously not all but some will be rapists and it's up to us as a country who we let in. Would you say that crimes like this are a price worth paying in order to be compassionate humans to others?

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:29

SleeplessInWherever · 18/09/2025 12:49

I had hoped that it was at least the product of a willing affair, but that was wishful thinking/naivety on my part.

I’ll watch that over the weekend, it does sound interesting!

No, sadly he owned her.

He was James Wedderburn, son of Sir John Wedderburn of Blackness Castle who was hung, drawn and quartered as a Jacobite on 28th November, 1746. Her name was Rosanna (her mother was nicknamed “tally Amy, which potentially explains me 🤣)Their son was named Robert. He somehow managed to travel to England to seek recognition from his Scottish family. They turned him away. He then travelled to London, published a book called The Horrors of Slavery (still in print, Amazon) and joined forces with abolitionists like Wilberforce. I am immensely proud of him.

My mother was a dreadful racist until she spent a year investigating our family tree and completely changed her thinking. I am also immensely proud of her.

This is why I abhor racism.

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 20:29

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:14

Interesting and knowledgeable personal experience, thanks for that. If I were you and someone asked me what nationality I was, I would say French/German or Dutch because that is what I had chosen to be and that nation had accepted me as such.

Different perspectives I suppose.

Thank you.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:30

Talky Amy, not Tally. Bloody predictive text again!

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:30

ColdSalads · 18/09/2025 12:51

Makes sense given his forehead.

Rude

🤣

Papyrophile · 18/09/2025 20:32

And @TheLivelyViper I really don't feel responsible; the situation is not of my making. I can agree that refugee camps are shit places to end up, and yes, I feel very sorry for people who need them. I am happy to send a financial contribution to relieve the awfulness, but my sympathy stops well short of inviting them home.

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 20:33

MsJinks · 18/09/2025 20:18

I can’t see where he was a known terrorist? His bios would have given that detail up.
As they say he was here illegally sounds like his asylum claim was rejected and either he was waiting appeal, or a removal, but that’s not stated precisely.
What he did was abhorrent and he is at least jailed, unlike many rapists, and is subject to a deportation order.
However abhorrent I don’t think this means that the entire Egyptian male population are rapists. I don’t think it means all asylum seekers are rapists.
I am actually not trying to get people onto my way of thinking re immigration- though some may be surprised - I’m hoping for humanity to other humans ie/ don’t shout at them outside hotels, attack them. And this is becoming more and more not ‘just asylum seekers’ because it’s now taken as more or less ok by many to do that to them, so it’s spreading to other people that look to some as if they may not be ‘British’.
I do also despair at the misinformation- for example though this awful individual is subject to a deportation order due to his crime, normally failed asylum seekers/other failed applicants go under a removal notice. They also aren’t illegal whilst pending a claim/appeal. It’s like a starting point for a maths problem being 2+2=5 - it is just a wrong starting premis and spoils a lot of debate around this as it seems deliberately obtuse, and like these people are so unimportant it just doesn’t matter how we term them. None of this is good for any of us and our society.

I think that’s what’s referred to as suicidal empathy.

He's a convicted terrorist. He's a member of an organisation fundamentally opposed to Western/British values. He's illegally entered the UK. He's made a claim for asylum, despite already having been granted asylum in Turkey, where his wife and child live. He's already been put up in a hotel for 2 years waiting for his asylum claim - which should clearly be rejected by any sane person -to be processed. While the judicial system has been navel gazing for two years, he's raped a woman in a park and now he's in prison for that.

What part of that story leads you to believe we still need to exclude any lingering danger that his application gets judged based on unfair assumptions about him? He is a proven liability and he has absolutely no business being in this country at all. The fact that the system still hasn't figured that out means the system isn’t fit for purpose at this point.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:33

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 12:20

If the Spanish government granted me a passport (which they wouldn’t, because I’d have to be born there) - would that make me Spanish?

As Spanish as those who were born and educated there, who’s ancestors have lived there since time immemorial?

Of course not. It’s a legal designation, nothing more.

But that legal designation is very important! (as is grammar, apologies for beginning a sentence with but).

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:40

LittleBitofBread · 18/09/2025 12:51

Yes, I was going to say this. It's not so hilariously unusual at all. Ella Al-Shamahi in Human, which you referenced and which is excellent, I agree, makes the very good point that we all have a different 3% of Neanderthal DNA, which means they're actually still very present. I found that slightly mind-blowing, and quite moving.

It was mind blowing, wasn’t it? We’ve basically been presented with the idea of Ug who bashed people with a club and grunted for decades.
Turns out they made art, carefully collected and sewed (sewed!) the feathers of beautiful birds into ceremonial gowns, made and wore jewellery and had ceremonial burials. I expect more will be discovered over the years.

On top of that, they were absolute masters of their environment.

SleeplessInWherever · 18/09/2025 20:42

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:29

No, sadly he owned her.

He was James Wedderburn, son of Sir John Wedderburn of Blackness Castle who was hung, drawn and quartered as a Jacobite on 28th November, 1746. Her name was Rosanna (her mother was nicknamed “tally Amy, which potentially explains me 🤣)Their son was named Robert. He somehow managed to travel to England to seek recognition from his Scottish family. They turned him away. He then travelled to London, published a book called The Horrors of Slavery (still in print, Amazon) and joined forces with abolitionists like Wilberforce. I am immensely proud of him.

My mother was a dreadful racist until she spent a year investigating our family tree and completely changed her thinking. I am also immensely proud of her.

This is why I abhor racism.

I have genuinely just taken to the internet and read all about this story, after your comment.

I think I’m a bit flabbergasted that I could even find it on there. Not because I didn’t believe you, it’s just crazy to me for some reason!

What a sad, and impressive history.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:43

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 12:51

At no point did I describe you as such.

Show me where I did.

I know. I realised quickly I’d made a mistake and rightly apologised. Sorry, again.

Cosmicbroccoli · 18/09/2025 20:52

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 17/09/2025 11:36

Because they make the choice to come. They pay the smugglers. They claim the benefits and take the hotel rooms.

You can’t claim benefits if you’re in an asylum seeker in temporary accommodation i.e hotels. You can only claim benefits once your claim has been processed and you are given ‘leave to remain’, “ refugee status” to get this you need to prove that you are a refugee not an ‘economic migrant’. While you are waiting for your claim to be processed and in temporary accommodation such as a repurposed hotel if you are provided with meals you are given a allowance of £9 per week which will need to cover all the other basics such as toothpaste soap etc

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:59

Youdontseehow · 18/09/2025 20:20

But it’s not “free” though! It is “free at the point of delivery” but paid for through taxation. It’s not a bottomless pit of “free treatment”.

You may be surprised to know that translators are paid more per hour than an average nurse (qualified approx 5 years). I spent an hour on the phone to a father last week via a translator only for him to deny his daughter treatment because “his daughter will not have sex”. All in the cost for that one hour would be about £60 - multiply that by thousands and that’s how much NHS money is being spent on what was a waste of time.

Many fathers will also not let their DC be vaccinated (although they’ll let them have vaccines if required by governments to go “back home”) so our communities are at increased risk of viral outbreaks, TB because children are not getting protected.

Why come here if you are going to reject modern medicine?

Edited

We have unfortunately had to spend a great deal of time in Blackpool Victoria hospital in the past two years, much of it in A&E as my life threateningly ill husband (top bracket tax payer) was triaged and eventually admitted (in the very worst case 58 hours in a plastic chair in A&E) was assessed.

His surgeons, doctors and HCAs when he was finally admitted (after intravenous antibiotics for sepsis - third time I’m three years - in an overcrowded side room) were overwhelmingly immigrants. Thank god for them.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 21:02

SleeplessInWherever · 18/09/2025 20:42

I have genuinely just taken to the internet and read all about this story, after your comment.

I think I’m a bit flabbergasted that I could even find it on there. Not because I didn’t believe you, it’s just crazy to me for some reason!

What a sad, and impressive history.

I was flabbergasted too! The most important thing though is that my mum was. She has completely changed her opinions.

I imagine that there are millions of British people with similar stories.

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 21:02

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:33

But that legal designation is very important! (as is grammar, apologies for beginning a sentence with but).

It’s a legal designation, sure. Technically so.

But I couldn’t claim to be Spanish by ethnicity, that I was just as Spanish as anyone born there, with ancestry spanning hundreds of years. It wouldn’t be true, would it?

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 21:03

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 21:02

It’s a legal designation, sure. Technically so.

But I couldn’t claim to be Spanish by ethnicity, that I was just as Spanish as anyone born there, with ancestry spanning hundreds of years. It wouldn’t be true, would it?

Of course not. But you would still be Spanish.

38thparallel · 18/09/2025 21:03

In the very worst case 58 hours in a plastic chair in A&E.

Bloody hell that is shocking. How many people lose their lives from being left in a chair for 58 hours when seriously ill?

smallpinecone · 18/09/2025 21:08

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 21:03

Of course not. But you would still be Spanish.

So you agree with me - it’s a technicality.

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 21:15

38thparallel · 18/09/2025 21:03

In the very worst case 58 hours in a plastic chair in A&E.

Bloody hell that is shocking. How many people lose their lives from being left in a chair for 58 hours when seriously ill?

There were three people who had been there longer than we were. I’m really not making it up.
He was admitted three times over four months. The first wait wait was 18 hours when taken in by ambulance. The second was 32 hours and the last was 58 hours.

He had very complicated symptoms and because of his medical history I think they were looking into the wrong things initially.

Turned out his gallbladder was “nephrotic”. Not something anyone was looking at because he has a very rare genetic condition, which was what the staff focussed on.

Basicalky, it was dead, gangrenous, tissues had attached themselves to his liver and kidneys. Consultant (Bulgarian, bless her for ever) told us it was very, very difficult. But she did it, after three surgeries.

Sorry. tMI. But he’s cooking my dinner now 😁

Youdontseehow · 18/09/2025 22:01

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/09/2025 20:59

We have unfortunately had to spend a great deal of time in Blackpool Victoria hospital in the past two years, much of it in A&E as my life threateningly ill husband (top bracket tax payer) was triaged and eventually admitted (in the very worst case 58 hours in a plastic chair in A&E) was assessed.

His surgeons, doctors and HCAs when he was finally admitted (after intravenous antibiotics for sepsis - third time I’m three years - in an overcrowded side room) were overwhelmingly immigrants. Thank god for them.

Hmmm I wonder how many of them paid people smugglers to get them to the UK in a dinghy 🤔

Like many, I am not against controlled migration of skilled workers and their families who make a net contribution to the UK, learn English (if they didn’t already speak it), follow UK laws rather than medieval cultural practices and generally make a positive contribution.

Not the same as those coming over illegally in small boats, being net takers and contributing very little to society/community whilst reaping the benefits of being in the UK illegally.

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