DS accused of a homophobic hate crime

[Daalden]

Sorry this is going to be long and all over the place because I can’t think straight and every time I think I’ve got the full story something else comes up.

My DS is 16 and last week there was a fight after college, in town by the bus stops. DS and another boy from his rugby team who is also at his college, they’re on the same course, sometimes in the same classes, anyway it all kicked off. Now it’s all blown up way bigger than I ever thought it would.

The boy and his mum are saying DS and a group of mates jumped him, shoved him to the ground, kicked him and DS was shouting homophobic slurs at him. Words I don’t even want to type but you can imagine. DS is adamant that is not what happened. He says it was just him and the boy, no gang, they’ve had beef for ages, the boy shoved him first, DS lashed out and it was punches both ways and they both walked off. DS swears blind he never said anything homophobic, says he just shouted random angry stuff like “shut up” and “don’t push me” but not slurs.

Now it’s gone to rugby and they’ve basically said DS is out. He’s played since he was 7, it’s his whole life, he’s devastated. College are saying safeguarding meetings, governors, they’re using words like hate crime, assault, police referral. Someone told me even if it doesn’t go to court it can stay on record as a hate incident and show up later on DBS checks which has absolutely floored me because he wanted to do coaching and now that’s in jeopardy. I worry he could actually be arrested. We’ve not had police at the house but I’ve had one missed call from a number I didn’t recognise and now I’m panicking it was them.

The worst bit is this is not new. DS and this lad have been clashing for months if not years. There was that incident in training when they nearly came to blows, coaches had to pull them apart. DS’s boots went missing in the changing rooms once and he always swore it was this lad. They’ve been sniping on Snapchat, calling each other names, DS says he was constantly winding him up calling him thick and useless. So this didn’t come out of nowhere.

I even went into college last week to ask if DS could be moved out of classes with him because I thought at least that would separate them. But today I got home from work and nearly screamed because the SAME lad was sat in my kitchen with DS like they were best mates again. So if he’s so scared and traumatised like his mum is saying then why is he laughing on my sofa with DS? DS says it’s “all sorted now” and that they’ve made up. But how can it be sorted if rugby are still kicking him off and college are threatening governors meetings and safeguarding?

I’m so confused. On one hand DS is no angel, he’s got a temper, he’s been in detentions for backchat and being lippy but he’s never been violent before, never been in trouble with the law. On the other hand I don’t believe he’s homophobic. He’s got gay friends, he doesn’t care, he keeps saying “mum it’s personal between me and him not that.”

But now I feel like people have already decided he’s guilty. The boy’s mum is telling everyone he’s dangerous, rugby don’t want him, college are treating him like a safeguarding risk. I keep coming back to the fact the boy clearly isn’t scared of DS if he’s sat in my kitchen today.

AIBU to think this has been blown totally out of proportion, that it was just teenage lads fighting and it should’ve been dealt with as such? Or do I need to accept he’s properly messed his life up and this could follow him forever?

Honestly, your son sounds like a liability to the club. In several posts you've talked about his temper, his language and the lip he's given his coaches etc.

They've put up with a lot, and they've had enough. Going by your own words (and not just about this one incident) he sounds pretty obnoxious.

I'd be asking rugby for details of their investigations and decision making. They can't just chuck someone out because of an allegation, there must be some sort of formal process for investigation, surely. I'd also include an apology for fighting, but strongly deny any element of hate crime. And ask him if the other boy is still on speaking terms with him, if the other boy will also provide a statement. It would be good if he could somehow show that he has learned a lesson from this in how he controls his temper, hate crime or not. Can you investigate cctv?

@Daalden I think you need to be honest with yourself about your son’s behaviour. Nobody wants to admit to themselves that their child could behave badly, but telling yourself that he couldn’t possibly have done this is doing neither of you any favours. You need to question his version of events, and call him out on his behaviour otherwise he won’t ever learn. Perhaps if he had been pulled up over his language and attitude in the past he might not have found himself in this situation now.

Cool. Personally I fucking hated growing up in the 90s when homophobia was so normalised and rife, it’s taken me and other friends I know decades to unwind the damage. But, you know, so long as the straight kids had the opportunity to fuck up. God forbid they should be denied that.

This!

I know. Back in my day (late 90s- early/mid 2000s) we just argued, kicked shit out of each other and that was that, sorted. There was cctv, but it was crap quality. Now, it's police straight away and taken so seriously, and everything is recorded, photographed, logged and theres so much "safeguarding". Where I come from, you sorted your battles out with your fists, and grassing to the police when you got filled in was for wimps and wet wipes .

I’m so confused. On one hand DS is no angel, he’s got a temper, he’s been in detentions for backchat and being lippy but he’s never been violent before

No but every violent man had never been violent before until they were. This is your DSs first time and it won't be the last.

Your DS sounds like a nightmare in the making.

The worst bit is this is not new. DS and this lad have been clashing for months if not years. There was that incident in training when they nearly came to blows, coaches had to pull them apart.

He's got a vile temper and it's worsening. Not sure what you want. He's gone too far finally and is taking the consequences.

Vile based on what?? The only witness to what happened is the boy making the accusations. No-one knows if the other boy is lying, which is quite possible. Because if OPs son did call him those sort of names, do you honestly think the guy would be sat in OPs house following the incident laughing and joking like nothing happened?

Do you make of a habit of minimising verbally abusive, homophobic, aggressive angry males?

Because I sure don’t.

We can’t actually minimise something which we don’t know to be true. There were two of them there. We have no idea who’s lying, so in the absence of any concrete evidence that her son did say anything to the other boy, then the OP should stand by her son.

It doesn’t matter. If someone beats someone up and makes it clear that it’s because they think the victim is gay, it would still be considered a homophobic crime whether the victim was actually gay or not.

People like you are part of the problem.

Oh theres no ‘concrete evidence’ so the poor little man couldn’t possibly have done it…..

It is very unlikely people make up being abused or attacked. It is VERY likely people lie that they didn’t do it when they did.

No she shouldn’t blindly stand by her son just because. Thats not doing him any favours in the future either.

OP stated that there was also another boy present who is taking the other boys side.

Well of course he is. Because he’s a friend of the other boy. Teens are quite adept at lying. Not saying they’re lying, but if your son was telling you one thing, and someone else’s son was telling you another, where would your loyalties lie without proof either way? If there was proof my son had said what was alleged,I’m would absolutely say his punishment was valid and that he should accept it.

OP knows her son. We don’t. So a stranger on the internet shouldn’t be telling her to go against her son when there’s no proof. I’ve had teens. It’s a minefield with school/friendships. You have to navigate it how you feel it should be dealt with at the time.

OP, there’s more to it. Sorry but there is. And if your lad has had form up until now with temper, or aggression or swearing or other stuff that you don’t know about then the coaches may just have had enough and decided that the team are better off with lout your son.
If one of our team behaved like this, then started scrapping and calling names - they’d be out. We’re all volunteers, our coaches, and we quite frankly don’t have to put up with that shit.
also - I do believe in the heat of the moment he was more than capable of using homophobic slurs even if he isn’t actually homophobic.

You need to stop making excuses for the lad, sit him down, try to get him to tell you the truth and take it from there. If nothing else this is a lesson to be learned for him about behaviour and consequences.The only way out would be to understand what he said- really said - why and to give a full apology.
As for all the stuff with the police etc, that’ll come to nothing.

Absolutely this. Someone who can’t control their temper is a real danger on the pitch.

I’m sorry @Daalden but from what you’ve said here I absolutely believe that the other boy’s recollection of the event is probably the correct version , it sounds like your son could do with some anger management and less excuses from you .

I don't understand how he was kicked out of rugby if the fight was basically mutual? And if he maintains he didn't say homophobic slurs, there would need to be witnesses that corroborate the other kid, that he did say those things?

Otherwise it's just one kid's word against the other. I honestly hope you can appeal it or get him back on the team.

Is your son much bigger than the other boy? It seems extremely one sided as a response to what was an incident between two people rather one attacking the other.

As a grassroots coach I can tell you that we can kick out whomever we want, or not accept kids if we don’t want to. I haven’t had to kick a child out yet but I have read the riot act to a few over the years … and pointed out that we don’t HAVE to have them in a team, we don’t have to coach them.
We had a n enquiry from a potential new player a few weeks ago but then tonight parents made us ask on the WA grps for the club if anyone knew of them and the message came through kid and clear - decent enough kid, NIGHTMare parents. Stay well clear of the family.

I guess they picked their side. I do understand they may have had little choice.

You're right that it's a privilege to be accepted onto a sports team. Not a given right.

I don't agree that the rugby club can kick a kid out at will, surely every member has to be treated fairly as they are in receipt of State funding through the nation body. OPs son has the right to a fair hearing, particilarly as this could have a huge impact on his future if he intends to coach.

OP I think you need to meet with the club management team and requrst that your son is reinstated as his future has been put in jeapordy on the allegation on one boy, that they didn't investigate, and let them know that the boys are friends again, so the 'victim' obviously doesn't feel at risk.

If the club don't shift, I think you need to see a solicitor.

I think the club has reacted very poorly, this can't be the first time they've had to deal with fights between boys, to decide that one is to blame based on what one of the mothers told them is very unreasonable.

Regardless of whether they are friends homophobia is homophobia and there should be absolute zero tolerance.

Regarding the dbs, if he isn't convicted of it it is very unlikely to be on his certificate. Depends on a lot of factors included severity of any injuries and if the investigation is ongoing at the time of the application but its unlikely

Sounds like your son is questioning his sexuality and has hit out at someone else to cover his own mental turmoil.