To think this is fraud and do I say something or stay out of it?

[doitellthem]

I have NC'd for this. A friend of mine NEVER has to pay for work on her house...she has a family member who is high up in a business and so all of the work is put through the business. She says they are doing the jobs as favours! surely this is fraud! do i stay out of it or say something (who do i even report to!!)She currentky has a landscper in doing the garden...just so happens to be the landscaper who does the work for said business!

Agree with PP, need clarification on the set up.

If I own a business that does landscaping and pay my staff a salary and decide to send one of the landscapers to my sisters house and not charge her then I do think that should be my business as long as the landscapers are still being paid fairly. As the business owner, I am the only one 'losing out'.

If I work high up in a landscaping company, assigning work, but do not own the company and I send a landscaper to my sisters house but then amend the books so it looks like the landscaper was doing something different or this was part of a different paid for job then that's wrong. They are stealing resources.

In summary is the person sending the landscapers over in a position to gift this work or are they stealing time and resources.

It the latter, simply report it to the business

I got the impression the relative was an employee of the business and OP thinks they are ripping company off. She has no proof of this though. Most people who do this sort of fraud would only do it to profit themselves or immediate family, so could be totally legit.

You don't know that. You have no idea what's really going on.

It could be fraud if they are contractors to the business she works in and she has some decision making power in appointing them, yes. Is that what you think is happening?

Lombard Street to a china orange that it is fraudulent.
Someone is paying for this work but they don't know they are.
Report it totally anon if it is concerning you.

If the person running the business is paying the tradesmen and is willing to do so, I can’t see that it’s fraud. The fact that it seems very unfair to those who have to pay for such work themselves, is neither here nor there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean @doitellthem. Perhaps you can clarify.

Does the relative own the company or are they employed there?
Is the company delivering landscaping services or is the company nothing to do with house/garden maintenance?

It's unclear what the answers to these questions are in your OP and whether it's fraud or not depends on the answers.

Yeah it’s theft.

So say for example Person A is high up in a company that owns a chain of hotels. They have various contractors that do work for them, landscapers, plumbers etc.

They send those contractors to Persons Bs house to do work then get invoices sent the company they work for instead of Person B.

Straight up fraud. I’d have to do something about it myself. Wouldn’t mind about losing the friendship if Person B is so dishonest they can take advantage like that.

I don’t think the person who owns the business knows they’re paying though. They think they’re paying for work on their properties.

Maybe I missed something here, but how do we know that those who need to know in this company aren’t aware of the work being put through the books?

Good grief, who cares. Out of all the things in the world to worry about, and you choose this! All over some jealousy with home improvements and landscaping🙄.

Do you mean she is getting her employer to pay her bills without her employer’s knowledge?

That is criminal fraud and if her employer operates any sort of due diligence she will get found out and get taken to court and / or sacked.

Or is she the owner / manager of the business in question and putting it through the business to offset tax?

Or A.An.Other scheme?

I cannot imagine reporting my friend. Stay out of it and do her a favour and don't contact her again.

Businesses can own property. The house could be owned by the company for all you know; then invoicing the business for work or maintenance would be the correct thing to do.

You have no idea how her finances are arranged.

If your friend works PAYE for a company and part of her role is organising gardeners for the company's office for example...and she is having those gardeners come and do her house and getting it paid for by her employer - yes report.

If she owns her own business and is employing the gardeners through that, leave well alone.

So how is the person on the receiving end, getting those tradesmen to work for her for free, while they’re being paid by the company?

Maybe I’m just thick in not understanding how this is done.

You don’t sound like a great friend. I would keep your nose out.

Yes, that would be fraud but it's unclear whether or not this is happening from what @doitellthem has written.

You’ve just made up a scenario in your head - OP hasn’t said that’s what’s happening at all 🫣

Who exactly is being defrauded?
I think you don't quite understand the terminology.

I think the op is saying the business is paying for the work to be done and then claiming it back as a business expense so saying the work was done for the business when it wasn’t.

"You ought to spend a little more time dealing with yourself, a little less time worrying about what your brother does."

Assuming the relative is ‘high up’ not owners and the business is owned by someone else then it’s potentially theft / misuse of company resources if the owner doesn’t know about it. but equally possible the owner is aware and happy with their employee using workers to do ‘free’ work for family. You just don’t know. It’d be mean spirited to grass someone up.

Agree with this.

I think you’ve used the wrong language. It’s not fraud but it’s not honest.

So I’m a farmer. If I buy an oven for a workers house it can be a business expense so I won’t pay tax on the £50 the oven cost me. I could be cheeky and buy an oven for my house and just not write on the invoice which house it’s for and charge the business. Therefore saving myself a tiny weeny bit of tax.

Another example more related to yours would be our farm pays a landscape gardener once a month to tidy up round some business units we have. I could send that gardener to my mates house, the invoice is sent to my farm and just says “general landscape work” we pay it saving a bit of tax, my mate buys me dinner and everyone bar HMRC is happy.

Quite surprised there are so many people on this thread that thinks that is ok. In my mind it’s stealing from the taxpayer. I don’t like people who abuse the benefit system and I think it’s abusing the tax system. It’s not honest. It is rife amongst self employed and small business though.