To think this is fraud and do I say something or stay out of it?

[doitellthem]

I have NC'd for this. A friend of mine NEVER has to pay for work on her house...she has a family member who is high up in a business and so all of the work is put through the business. She says they are doing the jobs as favours! surely this is fraud! do i stay out of it or say something (who do i even report to!!)She currentky has a landscper in doing the garden...just so happens to be the landscaper who does the work for said business!

Would be people think feel differently if turns out the relative is high up in the council rather than private sector?

I get what you mean OP. We have had some fraud cases like this here in New Zealand. Quite often with public servants who have access to public finances including school principles. Not sure if this is happening with your friend though. Sounds dodgy though if she is getting it for free at employers expense. Unless they have some financial stake in business.

Sounds like the family member is not an owner of the business. They could be assigning the work to the business accounts without the owner being aware and then putting in a false invoice. Not an uncommon type of fraud.

Not your business

Putting in a false invoice to cover the work. They are not the business owner but probably work in the office.

Who owns the business? I’m trying to think of an example of what you mean. Are you saying that friend’s relative is a senior manager at say … British Gas and every time she has something required like plumbing or boiler work the friend gets one of the British Gas workman to go out and do the work and she doesn’t pay?

If that’s the case then yes it’s fraud and British Gas would be very interested to know about that. If instead you are saying - and this is definitely the case with my neighbours. That the husband owns a construction type company that has employees and when he needs his own house done he uses his own sub contractors to do it and is this lawful? Well I’m sure you’re correct that there’s some tax fudge going on there but I wouldn’t and don’t care about it at all.

she has a family member who is high up in a business and so all of the work is put through the business.

What kind of company - is it owned by the 'family member' or are they just an employee

I don't think they are self employed, they have an important position as an employee. Is that correct OP?

Have you seen their books? How exactly are they being cooked?

Well, it’s two completely different scenarios, so yes, I’m sure they would 🤷‍♀️

Friend?

That's how I read it too.

I'm not sure how you've decided this is fraud...? I think you've mis-understood the term. Fraud means taking/making money and not declaring it properly. If she's not paying them anything anyway, then there's certainly no fraud. The only way I could see it possibly happening would be if she WAS paying, but the money was getting pocketed, rather than going into the proper business accounts.

Assuming the people doing the work are getting paid their normal wage, and there's nothing to say they aren't - then what does it matter?

Can they come and do the same for me?! She's a lucky lady with friends in the right places!

No, they are not The company can do work for free if it wants, it is not fraud.

Well, that’s not really true, and also depends on who “they” are.

If the company is 100% owned by people who are happy to allow this then it is indeed their choice. But even then HMRC would care, it is technically tax evasion to lower company profits in this way, either she should be paying tax as income on the benefits received or the company should not be claiming a tax deduction for the costs. So you could report them to HMRC, but this is such a ubiquitous thing and damn hard to prove I’m not sure they would actually take any action and it does feel a bit petty.

If the company is not owned by family then either 1). This is an employee perk designed to increase retention, in which case it’s fine; 2) the employee is committing gross misconduct or 3) the company directors are not complying with their fiduciary duties to maximise shareholder return. So someone in the company might care, but finding out who to report it to is tough.

So the business owner does not know that the employee is using their time or other employees time during business hours and is also using company bought parts or goods. Without permission then that is a mix of massively cheeky, breach of employment contract and theft.

This sentence doesn't make sense at all. Who are the "they" you are referring to? The people doing the work would be supplied by the company so are you trying to say they're not charging her, but are booking their time to their employer and getting paid for the work by their employer? If this is what you're trying to say, don't you think their employer will notice that they're not receiving any income for this work?

That's the key questions really isn't. Just like if I had relative who was high up in Porsche and they gave me car just because no one would really notice. .

The thing is, if you report it, (and I understand perfectly where fraud comes into it. The relative high up in the business is shafting the business because he is adding private work onto the bill) she'll know it was you. Also, I don't think it's exaggerating of me to say it's quite a serious white collar offence fraud is and could result in prison.

So I'd just keep quiet if I were you.

Is this seriously all you have to occupy your mind? Petty doesn't cover it. Who needs a friend like you?!

If they're stealing from a company that is different than fraud or buying a few bits on a trade vat account.
Stealing is serious. Your posts aren't clear.

Wow. You’re really quite a nasty piece of work aren’t you

Mind your own.

If you are an finance controller you fiddle the invoice so the company pays for their job and the illegitimate one. Quite a common type of fraud unfortunately as a lot of business owners trust their staff and don't keep a good eye on their books.

Yes, because then its "public" resources being used rather than a privately owned business.