War, farming and food supply

[Lifeinthepit]

With the recent incursions by Russia into NATO territory, it got me thinking about the increased danger of war. Bearing in mind we have nearly 70 million people squashed onto this island that's a lot of mouths to feed if the food supply lines are broken (which presumably would be a priority target by any enemy).

With that clear danger in mind, I wonder how the government is encouraging and supporting our farmers and what measures they are taking to ensure that farmers continue to farm the land to produce our food. And also how they are making sure there is enough proper farmland available (and not built on or sold to Blackrock to be covered in solar panels) to potentially support 70 million hungry people.

AIBU to think that the Government are doing the opposite of making sure our food supply will be secure in the time of any war.

Of course he was a Brexiteer! The capitalist EU will be an anathema to someone with his politics.

Anyway no one definitely knows what he thought so it's a moot point really.

Yep

Vote in 2016, Cameron resigns knowing that he's fucked the country
May comes in, tries to negotiate Brexit, calls a general election when she can't get the Tories to agree, this loses her majority
Johnson comes in and triggers the actual withdrawal that gives us 2 years to negotiate.
He winds down the clock leaving us with a very hard Brexit.
Truss comes in, spectacularly fucks the economy. Anyone renewing a mortgage after her tenure will be feeling the pain. She's swiftly ousted and Sunak comes in to try to fix her economic disaster

Well apart from the interviews he gave. The 70% remain one sticks in my head.

From a farming background here, one the biggest challenges we'd have would be ensuring crop yields and fertiliser. It's mostly from Poland these days, and Lithuania too. And they are likely very problematic locations.

It's also a very valid post from the OP. Food supply for civilians is traditionally a target in wars. Just look back at our own history with blockades and subs during WWI, the Americans in Vietnam, and of course the Israeli actions in Gaza. In war, it can/will happen to us too.

We should be a lot more prepared in general. If there is war, food supplies will be a target.

I can't really argue with much of that particular summary. But it does ignore the part Labour and the EU itself had in buggering up our withdrawal. Nothing is ever black or white in politics.

David Cameron doesn't get nearly enough flack IMO. Calls a referendum with a 50% cut off and supports one side despite knowing there's a good chance therefore he may lose. And then scuttles off and doesn't take responsibility.

He was just pandering to the Labour Remainer vote. But couldn't bring himself to lie completely so did a mealy mouthed cop out of "70%". Yeah right.

Anyway that's just my thoughts on it. Not of any importance.

Could you explain how Labour made the negotiations worse? They were in opposition, the didn't do any of the negotiations.

I'm struggling to see how they are at fault for the Conservatives brexit deal

Do we have to thrash this out again? I really don't want to go to any effort discussing this. It was simply a response to a PP that sent us down this boring rabbit hole. Haven't we had enough Brexit chat?

58% of the food consumed in the UK comes from domestic production. Buy local, support British farmers.

Maybe if you didn't peddle lies and try to place the blame at a party who were in opposition then people wouldn't have to correct you.

It's fine to disagree with a how a party is governing. It's a good thing we can have those discussions. But pushing misinformation it's just damaging

A disagreement in what happened and why is not "peddling lies". Keir Starmer voted many times to block Brexit. He also campaigned for a second referendum. You may remember how slim the Conservatives majority was and how hard it was to get anything through Parliament. I think that hamstrung us getting a decent outcome. That's my own opinion. I appreciate you will not agree but that's fine. No one is marking our prep here.

I don't want to get into this discussion please. I am allowed my opinion on Keir Starmer but this is a thread on farming.

And Brexit has been the most damaging thing to farming in a generation. It needs to be talked about when discussing how governments have treated it

You can't just look at this government in isolation. Context is important

With respect, increasing renewable energy in the UK is the only way to avoid the country’s energy prices being dependent on despot regimes and murderous dictators.

Increasing oil extraction in the UK won't significantly lower energy bills because North Sea oil and gas are sold at global market prices, with most production exported rather than retained for domestic use. Domestic companies own the resources, which are subject to international supply and demand, and the production volumes are too small to influence global prices. Instead of more fossil fuels, investments in domestic renewable energy sources like wind and solar are a more effective way to achieve long-term, stable energy costs for UK consumers.

Why domestic extraction doesn't lower bills:

Global Markets:
Oil and gas prices are set on the international market, and UK production is too small to affect these global prices.

Exports:
A significant portion of the oil and gas extracted in the UK is exported, meaning it doesn't stay in the country to lower domestic prices.

Company Ownership:
The oil and gas extracted belong to energy companies that sell them to the highest bidder on the global market, not necessarily to UK consumers at a discount.

Declining Reserves:
North Sea oil and gas reserves are in decline, meaning future domestic production will be even less significant in influencing market prices, according to The London School of Economics and Political Science.

Better solutions for energy bills:

Invest in Renewables:
Expanding domestic renewable energy sources like wind and solar is the most effective strategy for reducing energy costs and providing stable, affordable energy.

Energy Efficiency:
Reducing the overall demand for energy through efficiency measures can also help lower bills, says The London School of Economics and Political Science.

Energy Security:
The focus should be on increasing the UK's ability to generate and store renewable energy to improve energy security and meet net-zero targets, rather than relying on fossil fuels that are subject to global price volatility, notes Carbon Tracker Initiative.

I am not a Labour voter, but even I recognise that it takes time to build renewable energy sources and connect them to the grid!

The problems we have now are due to the Tory’s failure to invest a decade ago.

How can you be so short-sighted after the extremes of weather we have been dealing with in recent years! Do you think you've got a bright future as a farmer if we all just go back to burning shit tins of coal! Yeh let's accelerate climate change to the maximum because the north Atlantic isn't quite warm enough to allow storms to do really severe damage enough yet! Is that beneficial to farming!

Boris was there making life a nightmare for Theresa and any sensible negotiation though, yes years were wasted by obstruction from the Tories that just wanted to push through a hard fast Brexit!
You say you don't like talking about Brexit but it has massively impacted farming, loss of subsidies, British seasonal workers cost far more to employ and probably demand more in the way of welfare facilities etc which isn't a wrong thing but it's a far more expensive thing.
Brexit is also pivotal to this thread in regards to the damage it's done to trade deals with our direct neighbours and many other countries in the tropics via our EU deals, that's our food supplies really compromised if climatic conditions get worse or war of some sort does happens.

What @RainFlowerRowan said about supporting British farmers when possible is really important (assuming you can afford it, and the option is available). If not British, then support French, Irish, Spanish, Belguin, etc. our near neighbours.

Availability of local (and by this I mean our own and neighbours) food options is often a challenge. My DF had some orchards for many years, but the supermarket standardisation and changing consumer tastes made that unviable by the late 90s. Supermarkets wanted everything "standard", size/shape. Regardless of Brexit, farmers have challenges getting produce on shelves in our own country.

There's a really good example online by a politician (I forget who) explains the impact of IHT and how badly Labour are going to mess up if it goes through.

Farm worth £5 million..(so that's the average farm).
Married couple so £3 million allowance.
20% IHT on the remaining £2 million. That's a liability of £400,000.
Labour say you have 10 years to pay so that's OK then.

Say the farm was producing a return of 1% on that capital value, that's £50,000/year on which you pay income tax.

But you also have to pay the £400,000 IHT bill within 10 years out of an income of £50,000. That's all your income for 8 years going on IHT. That you are also apparently supposed to live on. Because of "Jeremy Clarkson". And.in addition to the effects of drought, wet weather etc.

So the question is, are Labour's policies encouraging farming or discouraging farming. And if the policies are discouraging farming why are they following those policies when we are sending RAF jets to Poland because of the Russian use of drones.

I don't think anyone has provided a good answer yet to this..

Or you don't like the answers provided.

No. I don't think anyone has answered the question convincingly. Other than suggesting that there's no point in aiming for food security. Which isn't really a good enough answer. No one has explained why it's a good idea to charge IHT on farms in this particular unstable international climate. Bearing in mind it will raise peanuts and actually cost the country money and potentially lives. The "Jeremy Clarkson" argument is just ideology and as we have seen in so many areas this year, decisions based on ideology generally backfire.

Other than suggesting that there's no point in aiming for food security.

Not quite what I said. Which was to point out that thinking "food security" just means what you say it does - the mythical ability of the British Isles to provide enough food for it's population - is short sighted and clearly an agenda.

There's no agenda. It's just a question of thinking about what a good policy would be and contrasting it with bad policy. And the contradiction between aiming for food security and ruining farming. It's not tribal.

Obviously I along with most people looking at the polls don't think Keir Starmer is doing well. But in this case I would argue these particular.rules re IHT on farming is wrong if it were the Conservatives in power too. Any reasonable person would, looking at the figures I just outlined.

Surely it’s the opposite - long term not short sighted and no agenda. It’s not protecting Labour but then again why should people

It is possible to become more resilient now, both individually and as a country.

Individually:

start a veg plot, learn how to grow your own food. Improve your soil. Make compost. (Surprisingly easy) You are not going to be able to support yourself from this but it builds resilience.

Learn how to preserve food. (Canning, dehydration, freezing, jams, preserves, pickling etc)

Keep a store of food for emergencies. (A bit extra, built up gradually, stuff you actually eat anyway) This is good if you are ill etc to tide you over going to the shops.

As a country we can encourage farming, soil health and other stuff experts recommend. (I don't know much)

Government can encourage home growing : allotments for new developments, or gardens. Support councils with keeping allotments, or running free/cheap veg growing courses. (There is one near me)

Councils/government can encourage churches/schools, mosques, temples , youth clubs, old people's homes etc to grow veg. (A small grant for raised beds or education/instructions) A couple of churches I pass on journeys grow veg for the community. There's a community garden in Tenby.

Encourage preparedness as in other countries. We are starting to see this more. Still not very prominent in the UK though.

We aren't going to be self sufficient, but if we need x fewer ships/planeloads of food per week it is good for the environment and our resilience as a country.

They need to do stuff that is low cost/free for higher return.

It would be nice if more people thought to grow a bit of food themselves. When my grandad was younger it used to be quite normal to grow veg in your garden and my family still try to, we all have a couple of beds at the back with potatoes etc, an apple tree, raspberry canes etc. We don't have large gardens but we try and use the space carefully. Lots of people in my village keep chickens

It would be nice if more people thought to grow a bit of food themselves. When my grandad was younger it used to be quite normal to grow veg in your garden and my family still try to, we all have a couple of beds at the back with potatoes etc, an apple tree, raspberry canes etc. We don't have large gardens but we try and use the space carefully. Lots of people in my village keep chickens.