War, farming and food supply

[Lifeinthepit]

With the recent incursions by Russia into NATO territory, it got me thinking about the increased danger of war. Bearing in mind we have nearly 70 million people squashed onto this island that's a lot of mouths to feed if the food supply lines are broken (which presumably would be a priority target by any enemy).

With that clear danger in mind, I wonder how the government is encouraging and supporting our farmers and what measures they are taking to ensure that farmers continue to farm the land to produce our food. And also how they are making sure there is enough proper farmland available (and not built on or sold to Blackrock to be covered in solar panels) to potentially support 70 million hungry people.

AIBU to think that the Government are doing the opposite of making sure our food supply will be secure in the time of any war.

Hey OP : thanks for sticking with the thread. I very much want an answer to first question below.

I think most of your posts have as motivation the change in inheritance tax (Labour introduced recently) that means farms could get a big tax bill when passed to next generation. Really sorry if you already answered this and I missed it, long thread.

My question:
The agricultural tax relief being taken away was only introduced in about 1992. What was the tax relief situation for farmland being passed down before that? How did farms avoid having to be sold or broken up then?

Bonus question:
How do you feel about people like Jeremy Clarkson using agricultural land as a tax shelter for their kids? Which was reason for his original investment, regardless of his farmer conversion since. Do you blame people like JC for driving up price of agric land?

My point has always been throughout that any negative policy towards farms (such as making them chargeable for IHT when they currently arent) is madness when there are incursions by the Russians into Poland. Whatever the situation was in 1992 the world is in a very much more unstable state as we all know.

JC is a very unusual case and a huge red herring. There are very few farmers like him. The government are trying to spin it for ideaological reasons that most farmers are in a similar situation to JC and therefore need putting in their box. It's not true and it's a shame that no one in government listens to the average farmer. The IHT will raise little money, probably cost taxpayers more than it raises and leads to the destruction of a good thing in this country.

Incidentally the IHT provisions on BPR will similarly affect family businesses, although perhaps not so relevant to my particular thread. Rachel Reeves is a hugely destructive Chancellor that only thinks short term in many areas. I hope the country doesn't get put to the test.

The VAT is almost a side issue IMHO. Locally to us, since Labour announced house building targets there are literally thousands of houses in the process of planning, all in the last few months, either already granted, or being brought to planning. Some are in the local town on brownfield, hurrah, a huge number are on productive farm land, recently farmed for wheat and rape, grazing land for sheep. Oh, and let's not forget the huge solar farm, also on farmland.

Once it's gone, it's gone.

Yes, I'm quoting the first page and haven't yet got any further, but I find statements like this moronic. Yes, we are squashed. An enormous proportion of the UK is not suitable to be built on or to live on. There are uplands, moors, river floodplains, coastal floodplains, forests (we need them), farmland (ditto). In fact we need all of them.

Yes only a small proportion of the UK is built on, for good reason. Humans are not the only things that live on our islands.

Ah bummer, I still don't have answer to my question, which is

What was the tax relief situation for farmland being passed down before [the IHT relief introduced in early 1990s]? How did farms avoid having to be sold or broken up then [due to their tax bills]?

Is OP saying the inheritance tax change in 2025 is not a concern to her after all? Confused.

I'm saying it's irrelevant what the situation was in 1992. I've been very consistent in what I'm saying. We may want to look at the IHT situation down the line but at the moment it is very much not the right time (given the potential urgent need for food security) as it's not a positive or supportive tax regime for farms in any way whatsoever. Is it. Reread my original post and then explain why war was just as possible in 1992 in Europe as it is in 2025.

Oh hallelujah! A sane person.

I hate this idea that it’s OK to build everywhere. We need fertile land for farming AND we need land for nature. Humans are not the only things which have a right to live in the UK. Birds, mammals, reptiles, invertebrates - they need habitats and we need these creatures.

Travelling around the country it’s impossible to miss the vast number of housing developments in the countryside - villages are nearly doubling in size in some cases.

It's hideous. As I've already said, farmland won't be bought by farmers. It will be bought by Blackrock and houses and solar panels built all over it. Labour are also I understand reducing any subsidies for keeping hedgerows and the sides of fields unfarmed to encourage wildlife. The government desperately need people to advise them who really understand the countryside.

For anybody interested in UK land use, I highly recommend Guy Shrubsole's books 'Lie of the land' and 'Who owns England'. With fifty per cent of land in England being owned by just one per cent of the population and between thirty and fifty million pheasants being raised and released annually on it (as well as being fed grain etc) there's plenty of good arable land that could certainly be put to better use.. a farmer getting the chance would be a fine thing though..

The Country Land and Business Association (CLA), put the total figure of farms that will be affected by the new IHT rules at 70,000.

The current Labour party seem to have this attitude that "the countryside" is inhabited mainly by braying toffs wearing tweed who spend their time hooting at each other across point to points, while exploiting the masses, and are therefore to be punished. Down with the rich and take their rural stewardship with them. Who cares about biodiversity anyway? What did biodiversity ever do for us?

@Lifeinthepit they did. And I'm not disputing that, in fact I wasn't referencing IHT at all, as a farmer I'm very aware of it. This was simply a response to the issues of land use that had come up throughout the thread.

Well it might be needed for any war effort so probably better not create the situation where potential farmland land needs to be sold up to pay IHT and then covered in rows of houses.

@Lifeinthepit well yes exactly.. my point was in regard to who buys up and hoards land in this country without farming on it. More in response to the idea that homes etc are needed as a justification for losing farmland which I disagree with.

I think something has been lost in translation though so will bow out.. very much in support of more farming on this island though. In fact I've literally dedicated my career to encouraging it.

I certainly don't want my replies to discourage someone who actually farms and knows what they are talking about from contributing so please don't be put off by me! I'm not a farmer so value your expertise and knowledge.

'Guy shrubsole'

He wrote a book on farming, I mean it's just perfect

1992 tax reduction opportunities are NOT irrelevant if it is the same tax or similar opportunity status that British farmers are returning to soon, if the thread is partly about whether farmers are feeling pressure to sell up or not and thus UK agricultural production might be reduced.

I draw OP's attention to war in Kosovo/Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia that dragged on during the early 1990s. Which conflict drew in Osama Bin laden among others, Since so concerned about land war in Europe. Shall we just ignore skirmishes between Greece & Turkey over last 5 decades (two NATO partners) or all the Middle Eastern wars since 1945 (or before even).

I can draw OP's attention to the Cold War if not already concerned about human annihilation. Or Soviet invasions of Czech and Hungry in 1960s & 1950s. If so concerned about global security. And the proxy war in Afghanistan in 1980s. If you think "now" is a particularly insecure time to be alive.

I draw OP's attention to strong performance of BNP in British elections in 1990s, if so concerned about extremist politics.

Pfffffffffffftttt.

Unfortunately I think many politicians from the 2 main parties are out of touch about the countryside and lots of other things! That’s a massive bugbear of mine but one for another thread.

I don’t believe we should build on greenfield sites until absolutely every other possibility has been exhausted, including renovating existing buildings. There is no virtue in it except to greedy property developers- can’t people see that?I see thousands of ‘executive’ homes (ridiculous expression - what does it mean?) being built and I’d like to know how these £million+ houses help with the housing crisis.

Looking around my own small town I see at least 4 brownfield sites, all close to schools, doctors and shops (walking distance) which developers have been sitting on since before Covid. The govt should act to force them to use these sites or give them up…but they really want a beautiful field to build on, don’t they?

Not thanks to your scaremongering over food security though. 🤣

Yes unfortunately green fields are cheaper to build on that brownfield sites which often have to be cleaned up.

Don’t blame the op for Labour’s failings.

I'm flattered you think my edicts affect how thousands of people say they are going to vote! Thank you!

Maybe you meant the MN poll? I was referring to the national polls.

Even if we accept that the UKs total and utter interest in ensuring 100% food security in 1945 was somehow a mistake; then why blame a party that as been in power for 1/80th of that time for the problem ?

It's not really what critical thinkers do.

I'm not blaming anyone for past decisions. I'm questioning the decisions Labour are making now. That's the whole point of the thread.

😬