War, farming and food supply

[Lifeinthepit]

With the recent incursions by Russia into NATO territory, it got me thinking about the increased danger of war. Bearing in mind we have nearly 70 million people squashed onto this island that's a lot of mouths to feed if the food supply lines are broken (which presumably would be a priority target by any enemy).

With that clear danger in mind, I wonder how the government is encouraging and supporting our farmers and what measures they are taking to ensure that farmers continue to farm the land to produce our food. And also how they are making sure there is enough proper farmland available (and not built on or sold to Blackrock to be covered in solar panels) to potentially support 70 million hungry people.

AIBU to think that the Government are doing the opposite of making sure our food supply will be secure in the time of any war.

No, I just like pointing out political posts when they try to claim to be non-political

Of course it’s related to current Labour policy. I don’t think the op has said otherwise.

I have totally grasped the point.

Fuck all we can do will move the dial more than a few points of a percent on food grown in the UK. And that would require more money than you could imagine.

If the UK is to face the sort of war people like to imagine (and I have doubts) then there are much better uses of resources.

There are a plethora of things the UK is not self sufficient in. Food is just the most immediate example. We are - and have always been - a trading nation. What we don't have we beg, buy or (more often) steal from other countries.

And for reasons I cannot imagine, the government has taken the rather bold (although some would say despicably underhand) decision not to make public all their plans for the contingencies of war. Which would encompass not just food supply, but a whole host of things that hopefully no one thinks about.

Why is it "political" to support farming and food production in a time of potential war? Are you saying that if you support that you are anti Labour?

Regardless of the politics, food security is going to be a huge issue. Relying on energy imports was fine until costs rocketed and supplies were cut off. It would be foolish to allow the same thing to happen with food with no mitigations in place.

It's rather naively suggesting that a decision made centuries ago is somehow at the door of a government elected in 2024. It's in AIBU. I've still got my second coffee to go, so why not have a post ?

I think you are.assuming a level of competence that is unrealistic.

What you are essentially saying is that the Government have given up on food production for the population if there is a war (and are actually attacking it). That doesn't really fill me with joy....

You're just using this to attack Labour. Be honest about it.

I'm pretty certain that there will be plans for keeping Britain fed if it comes to war

‘Attack Labour’ does that concern you, why?

They are making it worse with policy, seems unwise.

Rather naively, you are suggesting that a decision taking centuries ago means that we must give up trying to feed the population if there is a war and supply lines are cut off. And therefore it doesn't matter what decisions the government take in shafting farmers because we are stuffed anyway.

OK I suppose that is a way of looking at things..

What would those be if we can't import food and a war lasts for years (as Ukraine is).

And.yes I am attacking Labour's policies on farming. As I said at the start, it's madness if there is a war coming.

We get he governmetns we deserve.

What you are essentially saying is that the Government have given up on food production for the population if there is a war (and are actually attacking it). That doesn't really fill me with joy....

You could chose that as an interpretation. I would certainly agree that the well being of the average citizen is probably not the thing that keeps governments awake at night. Also that relying on the competence of the government isn't the wisest strategy. However we are where we are.

Rather naively, you are suggesting that a decision taking centuries ago means that we must give up trying to feed the population if there is a war and supply lines are cut off.

I am not "suggesting". I am stating as fact. With evidence of (checks notes) 1914-1918, 1939-1945. Plus various points in the late 1800s that no one cares about now. The secret was keeping the supply lines open. With the worlds biggest navy by far.

If you want to live in a country that is permanently ready for war, then maybe you need to consider learning a language and moving to one that suits your outlook.

In general it will be ensuring that the import of food will be able to continue.

There is no way that the UK can become self sufficient in food. It's just not possible. We couldn't do it during either world war, when the entire economy was on a war footing and we were borrowing billions from the US

How big is our navy now?

And also just slightly ready for war now would be a start? And not actually working against our country being ready by shafting the food producers? Seems common sense to me.

I think the problem here is I grew up in the 70s when nuclear war was a daily discussion point. I did all my panicking then.

You can be as self sufficient in food as you like. A couple of well placed bombs and the fallout would render the entire islands crops inedible. (Unless you are a fan of radiation poisoning). They'd also "well fuck" the water supply.

Did nobody read "Protect and Survive" ?

And also just slightly ready for war now would be a start?

You mean prolonging the lives of the survivors by a few days ? I guess if I know which survivors I might be persuaded to change my mind.

But we are actively working against it. Which seems mental. We aren't even keeping the status quo (which is also shit). It's as if we have already given up as a country.

There is no way that the UK can become self sufficient in food. It's just not possible. We couldn't do it during either world war, when the entire economy was on a war footing and we were borrowing billions from the US

That looks suspiciously like a fact. Am I going to have to report you ?

Yes OK. And I do have a couple of guns so may be able to hold off the starving hordes for a few days longer than the average person. But you're right...it's not an alluring scenario...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Royal_Navy_ships

"Of the commissioned vessels, sixteen are major surface combatants (two aircraft carriers, six guided missile destroyers and eight frigates) and nine are nuclear-powered submarines (four ballistic missile submarines and five fleet submarines). In addition the Navy possesses eight mine countermeasures vessels, twenty-six patrol vessels, two survey vessels, one icebreaker and one historic warship, Victory. The total displacement of the Royal Navy's commissioned and active ships is approximately 399,000 tonnes."

Hope this helps

Not a great idea from Labour to make things worse.

There was a nice article in the FT this week explaining how taxes could be changed without causing problems for farmers. It was very good.

To be able to chose the life you live is still a luxury enjoyed by few.

Irrelevant to the last 2 centuries. If 2 world wars couldn't make the UK self sufficient in food, then a few piffling tax changes aren't going to shift the dial one way or another. It's like putting a strand of cress in a curry and expecting to taste the difference.