To feel sad some women are forced to go back to work

[JTT95]

I think it is messed up that these days a lot of women have to go back to work after maternity leave whether they like it or not. It seems like everyone is sending their babies to nursery at 1 or even earlier. I know that some women want to and are happy to go back but there are many women who are heartbroken to leave their babies so young. I wish it was like the olden days where a man’s wage was enough to suport the whole family.

Yes that is my sense from reading this @everychildmatters

Working class women have always worked.

No. My point was, that it was all very well for middle class educated women to enjoy satisfying, fulfilling and rewarding careers, but not all women have that, and have work very mundane, poorly paid and menial jobs when they would rather be at home taking care of their children.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, genuinely not understanding

16 weeks with mine. 3rd one i had a business to run so could only really take a fortnight

Really. My grandmother had kids in the 40s/50s. She always worked as well. May not have been corporate career but she did cleaning, washing etc for others around the kids. In fact her eldest often kept eyes on the younger ones while she was working This was pretty normal

In my experience educated mothers with rewarding careers are just as likely want a career break to look after their children. They may also be more likely to afford it, having built up more savings.

Ok, you just said 'many of these women are menial wage slaves' without specifying a particular subset of women. So it sounded like you were just talking about any women who work.

I also don't know that most women in lower paid jobs would automatically rather be at home with their children. That's quite an assumption. There will be women who don't enjoy their jobs who also would not enjoy being SAHMs.

And finally, you said 'bring back the 1950s' but again you are assuming that the women who would currently identify as 'wage slaves' would prefer to be in the 1950s. But that doesn't follow. Being unhappy now doesn't mean that they would be happy if we rolled the clock back and took away their rights and freedoms.

There are many things we could do to make the lives of mothers - working outside the home or not - better. But stripping women of their independence isn't likely to improve their situation at all.

I think it's important to distinguish this from a corporate career, not to say that one is more prestigious or something, but because a corporate career tends to involve 5 days in the office a commute distance away and with the kids in full-time formal group childcare.

No. Corporate careers have increasing flexibility, including part time work, job shares and working from home.

In fact, it's more likely that lower paid non corporate jobs will be fixed hours and location eg. Cleaning, childcare, shift work in care homes.

Women in corporate careers also use grandparent childcare and childminders as well as nurseries. Often a mix.

In what way is anyone “stripping my independence” by me choosing to put my career on hold to spend some time looking after my own children, rather than offering my labour to an employer?

I used to be so career minded. I was so academic. I felt like my whole worth was based on that.

Im now a stay at home mum. It’s literally a few years of my
(hopefully!) long life.

Im actually happy until these threads bring back those demons. There is so much more to life than work and just grinding it out until you die.

I was referring specifically to that poster's exhortation to 'bring back the 1950s'.

Women had far fewer rights in the 1950s.

Once again, women - mothers in particular - have ALWAYS WORKED FOR PAY. Always. All throughout history. You've been watching too many American 50s sitcoms. Only a tiny number of very privileged women ever stayed home without earning money, in case their husbands whored the family money, drank it, gambled it or just would not hand it over.

There's plenty of literature out there about this. Educate yourself.

Your experience of work might be 'grinding it out until you die'. Someone else could come up with a really dismissive description of what life at home with small children is like - they could call it wiping noses and changing nappies. Rightly, you would argue that there is so much more to looking after children than that. And in the same way, I would say that there is so much more to a fulfilling career than grinding away.

Back then thee wasn't general " formal " childcare. Aunties or neighbours looked after kids. Or if you were rich then you hired a nanny

There were nurseries in the 40s , they were opened for women to leave their kids whoe they did war work. However mostly closed by 1950. They did however open far longer hours than nurseries nowadays

Or you left them home alone. I knew lots of families who did this when I was a child, it's been standard forever. That's not to say it's a good thing, and I was lucky my mum was able to work night shifts and I had an older sibling and an aunt who helped. I am glad there is more access to formalised care now.

But I think the majority of the very privileged women of mumsnet would be shocked to realise how many young children are left home alone so their mums can earn money. A lot of women also take their kids with them where possible.

Who is talking about social acceptance? I thought the OP was discussing choice?

Yes I can remember mum taking my brother in his silver Cross pram ( he was always lazy lol) and cleaning offices with him parked the corner . I was taken in school holidays and had to sit quietly and read

I haven't once suggested we should remove choice from any woman. The absolute opposite, my posts were directed at the posters who bristled at the suggestion that some women should have the option of caring for their own.

Bringing back the 1950s takes away women's choice.

I think we should be able to live in a society that can afford to live (basically) on one wage if that is the choice. The cost of living/housing is what is keeping single people at their parents house, keeping women in abusive relationships and yes using some women to return to work before they are ready.

Plenty of women worked in the 50s

The reason women are stuck in abusive relationships is often precisely because they are SAHMs, with little or no access to money.

i agree with that but even if they get a job it’s unlikely they would be able to support themselves and their children solo. working women often can’t afford to leave either. My point was a person on one wage should be able to afford to live independently. And a family sould be able to afford the basics on one wage. Not to struggle to afford the basics on two wages.