AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

Now there's a lot more focus on mothers needing to do a lot, the whole 'concerted cultivation' thing where kids have a lot of activities that need help and travel time etc, pressure to get into top schools & unis arguably more than there was in the past, and for support & extra activities from an early age to enable this.

Wheras say, children in the 60s and 70s or before had a lot more independent play time and time outside without adult supervision
The gentle parenting thing ties in to this too, whereas before parents generally did not use such high-intensity strategies.

Working mums are made tp feel guilty often of they can't make the school run. But in previous times children often walked alone or with friends at pre-seckndary school age..my gran was walking to school at 6, tho admittedly this wad as an evacuee in the country
I think it's good we're more safety conscious now but also think that it's gone a bit too far in some ways and put too much pressure mainly on mothers.

otoh there's obvs areas where children are unsafe, and this must be addressed.
Maybe also an effect of the climate crisis will be to have less driving, so this would also make streets safer.

There's a lot of talk that mothers spend less time w kids now and this is why there is too much screen time. But I think that's wrong.
Studies show mothers, including both working and SAHM, spend more time with children than most SAHMs in the 1960s did

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago&ved=2ahUKEwjuxsiS-dWPAxW3YEEAHXHsO044ChAWegQINhAB&usg=AOvVaw0RS-idWHNILw0SaKskdwRI

I don't think online stuff is bc mothers aren't spending time. I think it's bc there's a perception of less safety so kids are kept inside more than previously and are allowed screen access, so that takes place instead.

I'm saying this as a Gen Z who's really happy that my single mother (we lived w my gran tho who helped a lot) helped w my music & other hobbies. I don't think this is necessarily bad at all, I just think there needs to be more balance.

So what do people think? Is the expectation for children to be much more supervised now making women feel that children require much more effort than they actually do, and therefore affecting the birth rate?

The birth rate is declining very rapidly in almost every single country in the world, every religion, every ethnicity, every race, every culture. It’s declining amongst women of all political persuasions, all levels of education, and all income levels. The decline is happening in everything from progressive countries with strong womens rights to extremely oppressive, totalitarian countries who give women little to no rights.

There are countries who have trialed extreme measures to increase the birth rate - everything from taxing childfree people heavily to incentivise them to procreate to wiping out student loans for mothers to giving free houses to mothers to severe income tax reduction for parents to offering obscenely generous childcare and maternity provisions. Not one of these things has had even the slightest impact on stopping the declining birth rate. It’s had no effect at all.

More and more women don’t want kids anymore. It’s not down to one reason but a multitude of reasons - economic reasons, cultural reasons, increased industrialisation and access to education, changing tastes and values, opportunity costs, dating landscape and quality of prospective male partners changing drastically, future prospects, politics, increasing womens liberation in developing and underdeveloped countries, cost of living, living further away from parents and friends… So many variables causing the decline.

There are a multitude of reasons leading to the declining birth rate.

The reason you stated in your OP is just one of very very many. I wouldn’t even say it’s close to the primary reason, as it’s birth rate decline is happening just as rapidly in cultures/countries/ethnicities that have a completely different parenting and child-rearing style to the one you describe in your OP.

Companies need to change, ridiculous to have so much stress from primary school etc for degrees that are not needed.

I actually don't think they were. I was at primary school in the 90's and remember there being loads of events where parents attended/made outfits etc etc. I think the difference is that a lot of the mums didn't work or worked part time. Whereas now more families have two working parents so who is free to go to all the events.

World is also more global now so dc are competing with dc from all over the world.

Maybe thats because you dont get a social housing house UNLESS you have kids. If you are child free by choice as i am all you will get is a one bedroom flat or possibly just a bedsit now.

Yes we need much better state education...

We should want an educated population though & without children/new blood societies stop progressing & evolving.

I think you need a degree today if you are supposed to support a family.

Maybe thats because you dont get a social housing house UNLESS you have kids.

Plenty of people with dc are on waiting lists.

I'll have a go (as a barren woman):
Be pregnant, give birth, recover, breast feed, nappies, teething, maternity leave (for around year meaning lack of career progression), nursery, potty training, pick ups, bigger house and mortgage, bigger car, school, playdates, birthday parties, pets, Christmas😱
bigger house, monitoring internet access, designer crap, uniform, detention, make-up, phones, TEENAGERS🤯, periods, condoms, that discussion 😳 about sex, drugs, alcohol (the last one not necessarily for them) vaping, bullying, mums taxi, exams, more bloody exams, all night parties, driving lessons, university or apprenticeships, jobs...

You can see now why I took the cowards way out and let others replicate for me...

ETA I know I've missed a lot (my cousin had to make an Easter Bonnet), but there's only so much I can type in one go.

I would like that. Very much.
But would people have more children because of improved state schools?

I think it’s because women are now somehow expected to be perfect mothers and homemakers while getting on with life and work like they don’t have children.

I was shocked at the attitudes to a recent post I did (from men and women!) that if a woman ‘chooses’ to get pregnant no allowances should be made, including tiny things like just getting a priority seat on the tube!

We can't afford to fund better state education, we already have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yrs olds.

Even families don't get social housing in 2025.

Women have to be sure they can support their dcs on their own because the family unit is not as stable as it was.
Most women have careers now, work full time, and that leaves little time for caring for dc.
I have one dc, a full time career and a home. Keeping all the plates spinning leaves little time for parenting dc properly. And financially I want ds to have an enjoyable childhood. That's expensive.

I just didn't want them - nothing to do with any particular set of expectations - I didn't want the presence of a child in my life.

Things are a lot more expensive now and I think there's more expectation that DC do more or I expected my DS to be able to do more.

When I was young groceries were expensive but housing wasn't. Now it's both.

I didn't have clubs, holidays with the school, few family holidays, few new things outside of Christmas and my birthday and my DM never spent any time with me like trips for lunch or to the city to look around. My DS had it all because I was an anomaly even in my school.

What kind of events were these though? Obvs it's nice if mums are free to make outfits etc but are participation in events strictly necessary for kids to succeed? People talk about the pressure to attend to help kids succeed, I assumed they meant academic-focused events tho?

It doesn't at all. I'm a teacher and hardly made it to any of these events. I got time off for the nativity if it didn't clash with an exam class, but nothing else. I'm sad to have missed things but it hasn't impacted on my daughter at all.

Fwiw I wish I'd had more children, but the reason I didn't was because I found the baby stage the 7th circle of hell and I couldn't face going through it again.

That's a good point. Is there similar pressure for mothers in Japan, India, China, Nigeria etc ? Probably, at least to some extent.

I stuck at just one child. I could have had another but I just didn’t enjoy being a mum enough to want a second. Plus, we would have needed a larger house and I just could not cope with the hassle of another pregnancy, the hideous expense of childcare and the boring baby stage etc. And there were so many other things I wanted to do other than drudgery.
I love DD more than anything in the world and I’m very glad I had her but nothing would have persuaded me to have a second. One and done.

Thank you ...this is my suspicion. So why do patents feel this pressure? Do you think some teachers make them feel they must be there? Or is it societal pressure?

I think there is an unhealthy culture of quilting mothers for not breastfeeding, not giving birth naturally & this extends to stuff like this in some ways.

Out of interest do you think your DS has a better childhood than you dis?

I ask as I think a lot of the "back in the good old days" posts don't actually sound that great to me. Yes playing out sounds great as does less pressure but also maybe a lot of bored, unfulfilled mums and kids who could have done with a bit more parenting.

I do make a conscious decision not to overschedule my kids or buy them lots of unnecessary stuff. However I also want to spend time with them, go to fun places and be involved in the school community. Whilst also having a nice life for myself with hobbies and friends and a career.

Some parents just like to go to school events. At my school where I teach they are always asking for more.

I still don't see what breastfeeding has to do with birth rates!

Women are blamed for literally every shitty decision their child makes its no wonder they dont want to deal with it anymore

Single mothers raise criminals is a headline

Abandoned children become criminals is not

Mom leaves children with father headline news dad leaves children with mother is not

Fuck that why should the one that stayed pay the price for everything wrong honestly my kids school apologised to me for my child being needlessly attacked saying the child in question was "troubled" i said let me guess single mother criminal father? They laughed and said well you know how it is with some families i said I certainly do as a single parent with an ex who has once again been arrested i can tell you not all children are like that

Pissed me right off the judgment of it all