AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

Now there's a lot more focus on mothers needing to do a lot, the whole 'concerted cultivation' thing where kids have a lot of activities that need help and travel time etc, pressure to get into top schools & unis arguably more than there was in the past, and for support & extra activities from an early age to enable this.

Wheras say, children in the 60s and 70s or before had a lot more independent play time and time outside without adult supervision
The gentle parenting thing ties in to this too, whereas before parents generally did not use such high-intensity strategies.

Working mums are made tp feel guilty often of they can't make the school run. But in previous times children often walked alone or with friends at pre-seckndary school age..my gran was walking to school at 6, tho admittedly this wad as an evacuee in the country
I think it's good we're more safety conscious now but also think that it's gone a bit too far in some ways and put too much pressure mainly on mothers.

otoh there's obvs areas where children are unsafe, and this must be addressed.
Maybe also an effect of the climate crisis will be to have less driving, so this would also make streets safer.

There's a lot of talk that mothers spend less time w kids now and this is why there is too much screen time. But I think that's wrong.
Studies show mothers, including both working and SAHM, spend more time with children than most SAHMs in the 1960s did

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago&ved=2ahUKEwjuxsiS-dWPAxW3YEEAHXHsO044ChAWegQINhAB&usg=AOvVaw0RS-idWHNILw0SaKskdwRI

I don't think online stuff is bc mothers aren't spending time. I think it's bc there's a perception of less safety so kids are kept inside more than previously and are allowed screen access, so that takes place instead.

I'm saying this as a Gen Z who's really happy that my single mother (we lived w my gran tho who helped a lot) helped w my music & other hobbies. I don't think this is necessarily bad at all, I just think there needs to be more balance.

So what do people think? Is the expectation for children to be much more supervised now making women feel that children require much more effort than they actually do, and therefore affecting the birth rate?

I could have written that 25 years ago when my first child was born, my DC have definitely had a lot more ferrying around, a lot more clubs and activities than I did as a child of the 70s and 80s
But I'm not sure if the younger mums at work do any activities with their DC than I did.
My young adult DC are concerned about getting on the housing ladder, the cost of childcare and the environment.
And maybe I made parenting look like hard work!

The other poster I was talking too was saying there was pressure to attend plays, volunteer for trips etc I was thinking more about stuff like that than about homework & education help.

You can safely assume that it will mean something for you, your children and the cooperation between school and home if you choose to stay away from school arrangements.Your solution to fewer children being born is to encourage parents not to participate in for example school and leisure activities?How useful.

I think the drop in birth rates is more to do with expectations- I grew up around a few big families so it was normal to me. But if all your friends have none or 1, you'll be the outlier having 4.

We have 4 and my husband regularly gets comments at work - "wow you've got your hands full" etc etc. You have to have thick skin!!

I'm saying these school expectations sound very unfair. Parents should help w homework & take their kids to stuff like museums, read to them etc but I don't think parents should be pressured to attend so many school events. Children from previous generations were able to succeed without constant parental involvement in school events, why is this expected now?

Believe me. Parents are expected to do more than homework and museums in 2025. The list is never ending if you have a child attending school. If you have more than one it's easy a second job.
I am happy to see our last child through school. University is expensive but ask very little of the parents.

I don't have the answer. Do you?

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Main reason is finances and lack of support for working parents. Cost of living, rent, mortgages and bills are through the roof and when full time working couples earning decent wages are struggling to get by how can they afford to have children. Having children means eye watering childcare fees or one parent giving up work, changing jobs to suit childcare or reducing their hours. All options reduce their household income and in the current climate this is simply not an option if people want to keep a roof over their heads. The option of extended family, grandparents etc helping with childcare is also less likely as people are working longer with retirement age increasing and again the necessity to work as pensions are not enough to meet today’s living costs.

I agree it's a big factor. I have a few friends who've decided to stay childfree because they see how much is expected of parents and thought it wasn't worth it, they would be happier without the responsibility. They are in their 50s now, no regrets.

However, there are other reasons too such as more choices, and the cost. Although I tend to think cost is not a factor for starting a family, only limiting the number of children to 1 or 2. For people who do want kids, the drive is strong, hence the number of families on low incomes.

I do have 2 dc but didn't think I wanted children until I was around 30. No regrets for me but (despite having friends with kids etc) it's harder than I had imagined.

I do think it's good that childfree by choice is accepted now - at least it is in my circles - and maybe more genuine choice.

However you dress it up, the main reason why the birthrate is falling is because women don't have to have children anymore.

When given a choice, not everyone does the same thing.

My grandmothers had 10 children.
2 died as v young children - under 2 due to pneumonia, pre antibiotics.
7 male 1 female - you can guess which one was my mother

on my Dads side:
eldest married, no kids (his wife was one of 5, they had 3 girls and 2 boys between them);
next brother had 2 boys and a girl who had 3 girls and 2 boys between them;
then my Dad (just me);
youngest had 2 boys who have 5 girls between them.

on my mothers side:
eldest had 3 girls and a boy who have 3 girls and 2 boys between them;
next brother had one girl who had one boy and one girl.
next brother had one son who had a girl.
sister (mum) had me.

I haven't done the maths, but I'd say my rather weird relatives (going back about around 100yrs) are just about replacing themselves...

eta, some people have loads of kids, others choose not to.🤷‍♀️

I think you either need to win the lottery, have a ‘village’ at your disposal or have family wealth in order to have children now. Two averaged waged parents with no available family isn’t going to cut it anymore.

If you want one have one. It's wonderful. You could have 20 kids and it'll have no impact on population levels. Do what's best for you and your family.

Would it be OK to say what kinds of things you were expected to do? It sounds extremely pressured. Do you think all this extra stuff actually helps children succeed more or is it unnecessary pressure?

Children from previous generations were able to succeed without constant parental involvement in school events, why is this expected now?

But it was so much easier to succeed back then. My job wanted a degree, no one in the management team had been to university. Then newer graduates were required to have specific degrees & from certain places.

What I think doesn't matter.
You just show as parents.

Thank you! I can see in a perfect world having 2 but the job I want to do (criminal barrister) has v demanding hours & realistically I don't see how I could be an involved mother to more than 1 & juggle the hours. I know some do & that's great but I don't have boundless energy.

@Allswellthatendswelll but voters won't go for that so we are stuck.

Are these degrees necessary? Could people do the jobs just as well without? Maybe if degrees were demanded less, there would be as a result less pressure on parents

I don't agree, I am still working full-time (was single parent to four) I have my DGD every week overnight take to school, pick up from after school club, repeat. I do it to help my DD1 as she needs to travel for work, but also because I love spending time with my DGD. All my friends help out if they live near enough with GC.
I think birth rate going down maybe down to more choices with contraception, what ppl can now do with their lives etc. I helped out with my nephews and nieces from being really young and knew I wanted a big family, my kids only want 2 kids max although they love having a close knit bigger family.

@TheJoyOfWriting I don't think the degrees were necessary but if companies demand them for a CV sifting purpose want can you do? Don't forget companies don't invest in staff so much these days which is one reason productivity is so low.

One is bloody lovely. I promise. I did slow down in work when dd was younger but I've got going again now and my career is taking off again. Dh is hands on in every way and we're having a ball.

Birth rates have been declining almost everywhere in the world. The main reason is the improvement of women’s rights, which enabled access to contraception and the legalisation of abortion. Consequently more women are educated and have joined the workforce. Raising children requires both money and time, and with more women working, it has become more difficult to balance these demands. Therefore the decline in birth rates compared to the 1960s can be seen as a natural phenomenon.

Lack of affordability is the main reason , closely followed by women actually having a choice.

Yes, my family had no car (my mum never learnt to drive) & we've never had an abroad holiday (I did luckily go on school trips abroad tho). Just not financially possible. Living w my gran did save a lot tho, but as I said upthread this is not possible for some for many reasons

However, this was possible bc my mother luckily had work near the house. Lots of people have to drive & if both are working, both need to drive often ofc..

Better public transport might help maybe?

Not always true. DD1's nursery place fell through a couple weeks before I was due back at work. My mum and my MIL both cut their hours at work to each have her 2 days a week. And subsequently each had DD2 1 day a week. And are only too happy to help out after school/weekends/school holidays.

My grandmother on the other hand moaned at being asked to look after my brother for a few hours so my Dad could take my mum to hospital to have me, and only looked after is once a year so my parents could attend my Dads work Christmas do. They had absolutely no interest in us.