AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

[TheJoyOfWriting]

Now there's a lot more focus on mothers needing to do a lot, the whole 'concerted cultivation' thing where kids have a lot of activities that need help and travel time etc, pressure to get into top schools & unis arguably more than there was in the past, and for support & extra activities from an early age to enable this.

Wheras say, children in the 60s and 70s or before had a lot more independent play time and time outside without adult supervision
The gentle parenting thing ties in to this too, whereas before parents generally did not use such high-intensity strategies.

Working mums are made tp feel guilty often of they can't make the school run. But in previous times children often walked alone or with friends at pre-seckndary school age..my gran was walking to school at 6, tho admittedly this wad as an evacuee in the country
I think it's good we're more safety conscious now but also think that it's gone a bit too far in some ways and put too much pressure mainly on mothers.

otoh there's obvs areas where children are unsafe, and this must be addressed.
Maybe also an effect of the climate crisis will be to have less driving, so this would also make streets safer.

There's a lot of talk that mothers spend less time w kids now and this is why there is too much screen time. But I think that's wrong.
Studies show mothers, including both working and SAHM, spend more time with children than most SAHMs in the 1960s did

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago&ved=2ahUKEwjuxsiS-dWPAxW3YEEAHXHsO044ChAWegQINhAB&usg=AOvVaw0RS-idWHNILw0SaKskdwRI

I don't think online stuff is bc mothers aren't spending time. I think it's bc there's a perception of less safety so kids are kept inside more than previously and are allowed screen access, so that takes place instead.

I'm saying this as a Gen Z who's really happy that my single mother (we lived w my gran tho who helped a lot) helped w my music & other hobbies. I don't think this is necessarily bad at all, I just think there needs to be more balance.

So what do people think? Is the expectation for children to be much more supervised now making women feel that children require much more effort than they actually do, and therefore affecting the birth rate?

But it can be . No one says parents have to buy into doing all this stuff

I agree with this. Women are making different choices for themselves because it's easier to do so now. More education, financial independence etc to do what they want now not what they should.

My two SIL are child free and have great jobs, hobbies, lovely homes, loads of holidays. I can totally see the appeal of remaining child free.

Also ££££. It's so hideously expensive to pay for child care

I cant afford more. I would have loved a bigger family but I have no help & I cant afford to pay any more childcare fees. I need to work. I would have been a great mum to more kids & I feel sad that my time of having little kids at home essentially over at the age of 35 ( my dd is 12 so no more magic of santa etc) but I genuinely couldnt afford it. I cant afford to buy a home either. Life is so different now. I unfortunately dont have any living parents and have no 'village'. All childcare was outsourced and expensive. Fairly unusual a couple of decades ago I would imagine.

I think it's because women have realised they don't have to have children at all if they don't want to. They no longer feel bound by the social expectation to have a family, have realised no you can't have it all, no longer wish to parent and work full time and take on a shit load of women's work. Good for them. I do also think the expense of raising children, housing and general living is probably also affecting things.

What once was could be again. It would require large cultural change though..

society is far more judgmental though, if your kids is playing out or playing unsupervised and something happens people will blame the parents. What was acceptable parenting when I was young would now border on neglect safeguarding wise.

I think schools expecting so much of parents is part of it. Dealing with school stuff felt like another part time job on top of general parenting, household chores and paid work. And because so much more is expected at home it actually leads to more inequality.

I think school should be for school and home for home life.

Seems the people that say they " can't afford " kids are the ones that are generally doing OK. They just want a certain lifestyle

Strangely enough it's not generally heard said by the very poorest

I think another feature of the 80s was that you tended to just go to the closest school. There was no discussion over whether it was “good” or not. And most schools were fairly decent because you didn’t have all the middle class parents clumping together in one or two chosen ones.

My mother only went to parents' evening- and sometimes concerts & school plays. What other things do parents feel they must go to school for? PTAs? Other events that want volunteers?

It’s the cost. Everything is more expensive, particularly childcare. We couldn’t afford another one.

Grandparents are working longer in life, so less support (generalisation here) too.

I disagree- I am a grandmother and I work 4am till 8.30 am so I can help everyday with the school runs and look after my 3 grandchildren everyday all day during school holidays as their parents have to work to keep a roof over their heads

Women finally have options. Birth control, abortion, sterilization. Plus careers & autonomy, including financial independence. Which is why regressive countries/regimes have returned/are attempting to return to ‘the good old days’ of controlling women via forced procreation and other dystopian measures. It’s very concerning.

There are SO many thanks we get asked to go to. ‘Stay and Plays’ (watching your child in their classroom), Autumn assemblys, nativity plays, volunteering for school trips, walk to the library days, sports days, parents evenings. We even had a ‘Look Book’ event - come and take a look at your child’s work books.

This is all before after school things!

My mum wasn’t fed properly as a child.

I’d hope all children are fed properly. I don’t think that’s a high bar.

Totally agree. I'm super close to my mother but at the same time I've always liked time to myself. From a young age I was happy to play alone, normally making up stories etc. I think the pressure for parents to always entertain/solve problems is unhelpful.

No one says parents have to buy into doing all this stuff

Most young people are very aware of how difficult it is to get a stable job, afford a house now so feel they have to really invest in their dc.

What's wrong with breastfeeding?!

I think we can over romanticise the past to be honest. The only thing I'd like back is affordable housing and the option of a parent (not necessarily the mother) being able to be at home more. That might make people want more kids.

On the other hand a fair few of my female friends have decided its not for them and that's great. I think it's a good thing it's not the default any more.

It would not surprise me, at all.
I'm Gen X, had my girl in my very early twenties and enjoyed far less intense " parenting" and benefitted from the lack of wholesale internet access.
Thus I was far more confident in the choices that I made as a parent without having easy access to " comparison is the thief of joy" narratives from other parents on the internet.
Furthermore, middle class, often partly outsourced, very liberal notions of parenting were not Carte Blanche " word" back in the 90s and the adult and child world demarcation was far more obvious and policed than the culture that we have today.
Which made parenting far easier as to what is what. No babysitter? Then no, you cannot take your arse to the pub. Child hasn't got any self control or situational awareness? No, he/ she cannot be taken to the restaurant.
Kid acting a fool in public and a non parent adult chastises him/ her verbally?
The parent would expect an earful if they got shirts with the chastiser.

And the notion that every child should be the centre of everybody's world was allowed to be laughed at , openly.

The notion that one is but an atom amongst trillions seemingly is not allowed to be imprinted in a child , just in case that truth " stunts" them.
And perspective is abuse to too many.
That and the fact that money is far more expensive now than at any time in my life ( at least in the 70s, oxtail, pig tail, lamb neck, cow tongue , etc was CHEAP) I would not be a new parent now in the First world Anglosphere. Not at all.

Well it's not compulsory.

Teachers should know that anyway, after all they cant go leaving work to watch their own kids doing such stuff

No, I think there are two primary reasons women are having fewer kids:

1. Choice. Until about 20-30 years ago it was something you did more or less by default and in some socioeconomic contexts it was more or less the only real opportunity. Not every woman wants children but historically a lot ended up doing it just because it was what you did. Thankfully there are far more options open to women today and a lot of women are realising the opportunity cost of having children and saying no thanks.
2. Money. It’s bloody expensive and if you want to keep working (which many women do), the cost of childcare is considerable.

The factors you mention may make a difference to some but are fairly marginal.

Could it possibly be because women don’t want to have “more children”?

It is an illusion not to support the school and it's activities in 2025. It will put the children at a disadvantage in the school community and their friends. The same with the out of school interests.Do you have children yourself and a modern family life since you can so easily assess what the solutions are?

Every time I hear someone talking about kids it’s in a ‘who’d go through that?’ way or ‘why would you?’ I think women just see mums as being wrecked and miserable and that’s it!

Childcare costs certainly are eye watering and fewer parents live near to grandparents to help with childcare. However, I also think modern parents are more materialistic than previous generations and have different views on essentials and luxuries.
My grown up family say they can't afford children but they are not prepared to make some of the compromises myself and my husband made.
We renovated an ex council house whereas they are looking at new builds or not what I would call" first time homes".
We ran 1 car despite us both working whereas they run 2.
We had 2 " abroad" holidays in 20 years to save money and avoid taking the children out of school, whereas they go abroad regularly.
We bought lots of furniture, clothes, uniform etc secondhand but they don't think about this.
I think children can be affordable but you have to decide what your priorities are.

I agree OP that what’ve you said is a part. Children aren’t allowed their independence like they were and so parents are expected to spend a lot more time with them. It does make it more tiring.

Money obviously is an issue but the birth rate in countries with much better provisions and support doesn’t change much so I’m not sure it will make much of a difference.